Hi, just introducing myself and putting my question out there.

Hi, this is my first post, saying hello to you all.

What has brought me here is I'm trying to figure out a photo of my grandfather. He is in a uniform and on the back it says HMS Canton Armed Merchant Ship 1941 or 1942.

I can't locate any online information about his time with this ship. He was in the RND in WWI and fought in Passchendaele and I'm thinking has he re enlisted?

Any help appreciated.

G

 

Welcome to the forum
If you feel comfortable sharing his name forum members will try to assist you further in your search for information.

 

Thanks. He was Daniel MacCauley and he died on Queens Dock in Glasgow in 1943 due to an unfortunate accident. His uniform in the photo looks like he had moved on from his AB days?

 

Welcome, hope you enjoy the ride

!'m Afraid I have become a bit curious, knowing little about ships etc.

I take it that this is the ship. A bit more" HMS" than I expected for an Armed Merchantman.

HMS CANTON

Now you need some help from the experts.

 

Welcome aboard - the image of your grandfather shows him as a Royal Navy Chief Petty Officer. I would suggest he was T124X NAP (Naval Auxiliary Personnel).

Ex- P&O RMS CANTON - The image in #4 is correct. RMS Canton 3 - 1938 to 1962

On October 19, 1939 the RMS Canton was requisitioned by the Admiralty to be converted into an AMC, or an Armed Merchant Cruiser. The conversion was undertaken by her builders at Glasgow, and she was completed on November 4, 1939.

During her conversion the HMS Canton was equipped with an aircraft hanger and she had a Kingfisher single engine aircraft and an aircraft recovery crane. She had also been fitted with eight 6-inch and two 3-inch guns. She was rather distinctive for she had been fitted with a new tripod mast located just behind the bridge.

Regards
Hugh

 

A long. detailed history on: Allied Warships of WWII - Armed Merchant Cruiser HMS Canton - uboat.net Compiled from official records.

Curious to note two Royal Indian navy sloops were in the South Atlantic on convoy duties in July 1941:

Update: The RIN puzzle was solved in a thread on the RIN: Royal Indian Navy

 

Hello and welcome to the forum.
I see you are in very good hands already .

Lesley

 

Hi all, apologies for the delay, thank you for all the kind welcomes!

I've been madly searching around for info.

No go, but at least I want to thank you all for your help and especially for the fantastic links!

I read the official records of the Canton's history which was fascinating.

I also researched theT124X agreement and that is food for thought. Am I correct is assuming that he might not then have enlisted at the start of WWII? He might have already been a Petty Officer on the Canton (R.M.S?). In my head I have the image that as he signed up for WWI he would have done the same for WWII & that he was promoted up to Chief Petty Officer.

I can't seem to find any military records for him from WWII but I have his WWI records?

I wonder if the accident that took his life happened aboard the H.M.S. Canton? All I know is that it happened at Queens Dock in Glasgow 1943.

 

Yes it is possible that he was already serving on CANTON as a merchant seaman and when it was taken over by the Admiralty he would have signed a T124X Agreement.
Can you tell me if he had a middle name? Researching this surname can be a bit of a mare due to the different ways to spell it.

What can you tell us about the accident, how do you know it was in Glasgow?

Regards
Hugh

 

Grandfather & Hugh,

If I helps I returned to the history of HMS Canton. On 29/6/1942 she arrived at Southampton for a refit in King George V Dock; she had an extended refit and turbine repairs till 10/12/1942.

On 18/12/1942 she arrived at Greenock and on 24/1/1943 she departed with Convoy WS26 & LMF8.

HMS Canton never returned to Glasgow, sailing mainly in the Indian Oceean, before being handed back to P&O in Aden on 15/4/1944.

There is nothing online for HMS Canton being in Queens / Queen's Dock; not a surprise.

Comment: why would HMS Canton need to be in dock after a long extensive refit?

 

That is correct she did not return in 1943 - He had probably left her by then. There is nothing in the 1943 Deaths at Sea Register for him.
Regards
Hugh

 

Hi Hugh, thankyou for this. His middle name was Francis although I have only 2 docs where his full name is used. He usually comes up as Daniel McCauley (Ireland) or Daniel MacCauley (Scotland)

I never spoke to my dad about my grandfather until I needed to and by then they both were long gone, but I do remember when my dad gave me the "CPO" photo, he did mention 'an accident with a derrick?'.

I have the newspaper clipping which states accidental death & on the reverse of the CPO photo of him my father has written Killed Queens Dock 1943.

Also on his death record it says cause of death as Contusion and carceration of brain & fracture of skull.

Thankyou davidbfpo, that is fabulous info which I hadn't know about before. As for the HMS Canton being at Queens Dock I was just thinking aloud and trying to join invisible dots. It's a mystery as to what he was doing on Queens Dock, possibly he joined another ship?

Thanks again for everyone's assistance, I really appreciate it because I was at a brickwall.

 

Grandfather,

The forum can help guide you along the discovery journey, it can provide more information and sometimes we simply cannot go further.

I fear the accidental death at Queens / Queen's Dock, Glasgow has hit the "buffers". Perhaps luck will be there, somehow must have written something - not online - on the dock's wartime activity, even an official record is in a local museum.

 

Hi davidbfpo, I understand. I do wonder why I can't find his military records anywhere online. How would i proceed if they existed but hadn't been digitised?

Good tip about seeking info from Queens Dock wartime activity but could you suggest a line of action because it's all a bit overwhelming for me as I am not accustomed to digging deeper down from here in Australia?

But all the info I've received has been 100% first rate!

 

Is this him?

 

His Death Certificate. he was working as a Labourer at Docks. from Find your Scottish ancestors | ScotlandsPeople

 

Hi 51highland, damn I have all these records and I should learn to scrutinise them a bit better. Thanks for searching them out. Do you have any clues to where his WWII records would be?

So he had left the Canton. How do you go from being a CPO to a dock labourer? I guess there could be any number of reasons. Could he have been working on the Canton as a CPO before the HMS Canton was taken over by the navy?

Unfortunately I have no idea what happened to his medals.

 

Maybe he was demobbed due to his age, just guessing.

 

If he was one of the original crew aboard RMS CANTON when she was taken up by the Admiralty in 1939 then he may be mentioned in the Crew Agreement for that year. Unfortunately when put into naval service she would not keep Mercantile agreements while under requisition so we cannot use that method to find him.The 1939 Crew Agreement for CANTON official number 166555 is held at TNA Kew in piece BT 381/541 on the Crew Agreement the seaman's previous ship is usually mentioned so it can help to find out prior service in the MN.

Service records for Naval Auxiliary Personnel (NAP) - Those who signed a T124 Agreement are held at TNA Kew in piece BT 390 I have searched them and unfortunately I cannot find him but I am not sure how complete they are so it may be worth checking with Kew or better still search them if you can on a visit.

I see his son Patrick J was lost at sea aboard ss Surrey in 1942.

Regards
Hugh

 

Thank you again Hugh. It's all food for thought. Patrick J was his first son. Lucky for me I have quite a few things from him, my brother has his medals but I have his leather tag that is on a chain. Also a few ship documents that he worked on prior to the outbreak of WWII. I cannot however find his naval records either.