Afghan Army Analogy

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by Owen, Jun 29, 2010.

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  1. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Too depressing for words.
     
  2. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    History .

    Repeat .

    Doomed .

    surely any one of us could have predicted this from the first Western boot hitting the ground there ?

    oh and £37 billion spent by the UK alone
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
  3. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Good to see 3 fine bastions of democracy
    Pakistan,China and Russia are voicing how well the Taliban are doing in their takeover of the country and want to work with them
     
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  5. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    Look up Operation Cyclone to see how other bastions of democracy supported Extremist Terror Groups when it suited.
     
  6. Wobbler

    Wobbler Well-Known Member

  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Reading some grown-ups that specialise in the area, I'm increasingly unconvinced the current 'Taliban' is any way as cohesive a thing as it's being presented.
    More an even looser than usual collection of assorted warlords, fiefdoms, alliances & hatreds.
    Smells of civil war, rather than any sort of 'national government', doesn't it?

    Blaming specific 'types' of external government for any of it (Or interference in it) seems odd to me.
    20 years (40 if you include the Soviet period too, more if you want to go back to the c19th) of war launched, maintained & used as a pawn by every imaginable ideology, Western/Eastern Left/Right.

    Think I choose to blame 'Politicians'.
    This end - or withdrawal at least - was, I think (hope, maybe) inevitable, but it appears to have been so haphazardly done. Rather amateur in statecraft terms, with no concern for the inevitable Vietnam parallels.

    They've struggled to create a side by side shot of helicopters and embassy roofs, haven't they.
    Reckon these iconic things create themselves, and that footage of the C17 being mobbed is what'll quite likely sit alongside the Huey/staircase image.

    What do I know, though.
    The dust is far from settled, and I'm just some nerk on the internet that's not really informed on the gritty details.
    Blood & Treasure, eh. For what?
     
  8. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Struggled is the key. That one going around with the Chinook coming in implies it is going for the roof but it flew behind the building and landed on an adjacent field. Scum.
     
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  9. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    My tuppenceworth is that I don't see this really as a military issue. Even if the Taliban didn't exist, and the Afghan government was under no military pressure, I think it would still have collapsed the moment the US/NATO left.

    What has happened really is that an ideological belief on the part of Western elites that you can build a functioning liberal democracy anywhere in the world as long as you commit enough time, money and effort, has now been tested to destruction.

    On the bright side, the John Gray autopsy on all this is going to be mind-blowing.
     
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  10. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Silly old me
     
  11. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Not just the Taliban, VP, the Afghan Army was also "... an even looser than usual collection of assorted warlords, fiefdoms, alliances & hatreds" .

    Clearly, putting them all in the same uniform and giving them lots of new toys wasn't enough...and their 'Government' of course literally 'Took the money and ran'.
     
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  12. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    E8-KiceVoAIkmuD.jpeg
     
  13. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    A US talking head made a rare, reality related point. Little doubt it meant nothing to most viewers

    He said we've already experienced our Saigon moment and that we're now in our Dunkirk moment.
     
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  14. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Why can’t it be your Philippines (Bataan / Corregidor) moment? Dunkirk belongs to us… :)
     
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  15. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    Good point. Better analogy too :(
     
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  16. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Thanks to a pointer here is the August 2021 report by the Special Inspector General for Afghan Reconstruction (SIGAR), 140 pgs. and it is a general approach - not alas the Afghan Army specifically. See: https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/lessonslearned/SIGAR-21-46-LL.pdf?

    Scanning the SIGAR publications list rather oddly the last two reports on reconstructing the Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF) were in September 2017. See pg.10 on: SIGAR | All Reports
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2021
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  17. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

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  18. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

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  19. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Way too short, mate.

    Maybe... AM Sonderkraftfahrzeug Geländewagen 'Mehrzweck-Radfahrzeug mit hoher Mobilität' (a), with some further xx/x designation depending on type/mount.
    Doubtless LtDan could bolt together something more appropriate...
     
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  20. hucks216

    hucks216 Member

    A concise but interesting read about issues behind the events leading to the defeat, including the role Pakistan has had in supporting the Taliban:

    https://t.co/HBSbEvYZiU?amp=1
     
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