156 Battalion Parachute Regiment Arnhem

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by OgilvieJ, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    The Luftwaffe girls (Grey Mouses) called by the dutch, were girls who worked at Deelen Airfield they worked on the big tables in the big air raid bunker, moving the planes around, or work a typist and administration.

    By the way the photograph, in the book is this the one of the 2 soldiers lying by the fence at the van Borsellenweg?

    The photograph appears to show a young woman lying face down in front of a wooden barricade. There isn't anyone else in the photo, just her. She looks like she has some type of cap on which is down under her face. According to what Major Thomas told Ray Colt (Owner of Casque & Gauntlet and friends with Tony for quite a number of years) the young woman was wearing some type of knit cap under her helmet (See the attachment).
     

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  2. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    This is great information Philip. It would appear then that this photograph, while factual, has (shall we say) some points that may be a bit inaccurate. So, do you have some idea about why this woman was in uniform?
     
  3. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    Do you have anything on the background story of this woman? Despite the fact that my helmet seems to not have any connection with her whatsoever, I am fascinated by this photograph as I am aware that there were no frontline German units with women. What in the world is she doing there, in a German uniform?
     
  4. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    Behind the helmet, you can see another body.

    About the soldier in uniform, no idea, there is no record of a German woman grave in Oosterbeek, so either is just a guy, who was made hit in the head or so, thats why on the back it looks like a woman, or the grave was never registered as that of a woman.
     
  5. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    The photograph appears to show a young woman lying face down in front of a wooden barricade. There isn't anyone else in the photo, just her. She looks like she has some type of cap on which is down under her face. According to what Major Thomas told Ray Colt (Owner of Casque & Gauntlet and friends with Tony for quite a number of years) the young woman was wearing some type of knit cap under her helmet (See the attachment).

    Hi scotrudolph,

    If you look closely at the picture I posted (which is the same as the one used in the book, only of better quality) you will see a second body in the far background just below the crossbeam of the gate.

    All the best............. :)
     
  6. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

  7. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    This is the view of the same location today. I'm guessing the metal fencing is in roughly the same location as the wooden gate in the 1944 pic.

    All the best..............:)
     

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  8. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    Hi scotrudolph,

    If you look closely at the picture I posted (which is the same as the one used in the book, only of better quality) you will see a second body in the far background just below the crossbeam of the gate.

    All the best............. :)

    Ah yes, I see that now. Thank you!
     
  9. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    Paul-Thank you. I am so impressed that ya'll can pull these geographic references so quickly.
     
  10. scotrudolph

    scotrudolph Junior Member

    That's no woman, that's a poor German boy soldier with the back of his head almost completely blown away! To me it looks quite messy.

    ... and Philip is right about the location. The picture was taken between the Van Borsellenweg and the Van Lennepweg, where 'C' Coy of the 1st Border was in position.

    I posted about that in http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/airborne/40308-arnhem-1st-border-oosterbeek-perimeter.html
    Having been a flight medic and dealt with GSW's to all parts of the body, I can tell you that the tufts of hair around the edges of the cap and the absence of congealed blood on the hair or the uniform, not to mention there not being any grey matter on the back of the head or uniform don't support this showing a GSW to the head. It may be a young boy but I do not see a GSW to the head in this photo...seen enough in real life to know the difference.
     
  11. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    No problem :)

    Most of the photos taken at Arnhem and Oosterbeek in Sept 1944 have been so well researched over the years, that there are very few which haven't been identified with the exact location, subject and date they were taken. Once you know the "where" it's a simple matter of finding it on Google Earth!

    All the best........... :)
     
  12. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    This is the view of the same location today. I'm guessing the metal fencing is in roughly the same location as the wooden gate in the 1944 pic.

    All the best..............:)

    Indeed, I found a nice british fork on the left years ago:D
     
  13. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    Indeed, I found a nice british fork on the left years ago:D

    But no helmets??
     
  14. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    No helmets later only the remains of a soldier who some SOB, stripped from his relics and put the remains in a plastic shopping bag!
     
  15. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    No helmets later only the remains of a soldier who some SOB, stripped from his relics and put the remains in a plastic shopping bag!

    I remember that story :mad:
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hello, I'm new to this, so if I break any rules, please forgive me.
    My father, John Ogilvie, was a member of 156 at Arnhem. He was subsequently separated from his unit during the battle in Oosterbeek. He volunteered to stay behind in one of the cellars to allow the members of the unit he linked up with to try and evacuate and was eventually captured. He told me that he was a prisoner in Hertzberg on Elbe for the remaunder of the war and was force marched west to avoid the Russian advance. I have tried a number of avenues to try and locate the name of the camp but have been unsuccessful. Could anyone help, please?
    Best regards,
    John

    Hi John,

    Ref his previous units etc as I suggested I would apply for a copy of his service records. I've added a link below that should help you.

    service records sar form requests

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  17. OgilvieJ

    OgilvieJ Junior Member

    Thanks, Andy.
    John
     
  18. RedStan

    RedStan Junior Member

    Hi everyone.
    Does anyone know anything about the 20 Rhodesians who joined 156 Para in the Middle East?

    I know one of them, Private Ben Diedricks/Diedericks (Mentioned in Dispatches), was the man who took Major John Waddy to an RAP.

    There was also a Dugald Fletcher who was apparently in Operation Market Garden - he subsequently returned to Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and became a hermit.

    I also read in the War History of Southern Rhodesia that a couple of Rhodesians from the Black Watch joined 156 Para and then ended up in 11 Para.

    Does anyone know what happened to these men and possibly even their names?
     
  19. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Dugald Fletcher came from Bembesi in Southern Rhodesia where he had been a miner before joining up in September 1941. He was captured at Arnhem on the 20th September.

    John
     
  20. RedStan

    RedStan Junior Member

    Thanks John
    So he was there. Don't blame him for becoming a hermit.

    Stan
     

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