17 pounder APDS - & 17 pdr in general.

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by mollusc, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. tankbarrell

    tankbarrell Junior Member

    17 pdr on Mk 1 carriage weighs a little under 3 tons but it's still a beast to move by hand. It's only saving grace is it's lighter on the trail than the 6 pdr! The Mk 2 carriage has to be a good half ton lighter.
     
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  2. Don Juan

    Don Juan Well-Known Member

    Would you happen to know when the Mk.2 carriage was introduced?
     
  3. tankbarrell

    tankbarrell Junior Member

    I don't have a date but it's basically the 25 pr carriage with minor mods to the shield, firing mechanism and the 17 pr recuperator block fitted in the 25 pr saddle. The latter is a straight fit. It must have been designated after the Mk 1 carriage for the 17 pr was designed but presumably fairly early on.
     
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  4. Juha

    Juha Junior Member

  5. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    The quoted (wikipedia) weight of the 25 Pounder is 1.6 tonne while that of the 17 Pounder is around 3 Tonnes. The Pheasant has the 17 Pounder ordnance, which may well be heavier than that of the 25 pounder. I have spent a few hours man handling the 25 pounder and many more manhandling the 1.8Tonne L118 Light gun. In the Falklands, post war, we used to have gun races - a bit like the Royal Tournament. A 17 pounder is twice the weight. Not a problem when moving on level ground. The problems are with obstructions and up hill.

    The weight of a gun is not the only factor when manhandling. Balance matters too. The 9 Tonne 155mm FH70 was well balanced enough for the No 1 to pick up the trail with a hand spike. The "Pheasant" was an improvisation seating a 17 pounder ordnance on a 25 Pounder carriage. The combination does not look ideally balanced as there is no counterweight for the barrel.

    There were several priorities of work facing the detachment of a towed 17 Pounder, in say , Normandy. Yup the gun needs to be dug in, down to trunnion level. The first priority might be to dig shell scapes to protect the detachment from mortar or shellfire. I recall reading somewhere (RA Training notes?) of a cunning scheme whereby the first slit trenches were between the trails thus forming part of the excavation plan..
     
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  6. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

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  7. brithm

    brithm Senior Member

    British 17 Pounder Field Guns (1943)


    Comments on the video make for interesting reading.
     
  8. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    Its a 17 pounder mounted on a 25 Pounder carriage. The ordnance was available before the carriages. It was filmed in Libya or Tunisia. An important equipment because it could kill a Tiger tankand other tanks at longer ranges than the 6 pounder.
     
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    417404460_8036792549680883_4740568010499619381_n.jpg This photo (posted on FB's British and Commonwealth Manufactured Soft Skinned Military Transport group) was a new one to me. 22 Armd Bde's Wksp are seen inspecting 17-pr muzzle brakes. Whether they are used or new, I wouldn't like to say.

    VISIT TO AN ARMOURED BRIGADE WORKSHOP

    I'm no mechanical engineer but, given the inconsistency of inaccuracy across guns, is it possible that the muzzle brakes' manufacturing tolerances proved to be too wide for APDS so had to be cleaned up? Out of the box, were some muzzle brakes suitable for APDS and others not?
     
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  10. riter

    riter Well-Known Member

    AMU found that uneven pressure around the base of a bullet would throw the bullet off. Hence the M-14 muzzle brake was reamed out (tapered) to minimize that pressure. We've since learned that 11 degrees dispersion is how gas exits the the muzzle; and that gave us the 11 degree crown.

    Knowing this, I suspect that the 17 pdr's muzzle brake was made with little regard to quality control. Was it casted and then the casting poorly cleaned up? If they were turned, were the dechamfered?

    It also makes me wonder why the Comet's 77 mm was so accurate by comparison? Weren't they the same muzzle brake?
     
  11. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    There is this piece here about the production of muzzle brakes (from AVIA 46-304), for what it's worth. I'm not sure it's readable though, I think the forum squashed it down.

    100_7987.JPG

    Also diagrams.
    100_7986.JPG
     

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