1886571 Sapper Ernest 'Ernie' Richard CROSS, Royal Engineers: POW

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Coops_0031, Mar 17, 2024.

  1. Coops_0031

    Coops_0031 Active Member

    Hi

    I am trying to find where a male called Ernie R Cross 1886571 of 143 Field Park Troop served during the war. I know he served in Libya but limited details about his capture and service before North Africa. Also where he was a prisoner of war.
    Any help would be appreciated please
    Thanks
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    The only route is to apply for his service records as per your other posts.
    Forum members with POW interest might be able to add more
     
    Coops_0031 likes this.
  3. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Hello Coops,

    Ernie was held in prisoner in camp PG 102 Aquila at some stage. His presence in this camp is recorded in a document held in The National Archives (UK), WO 392/21, released by the International Red Cross. The document is dated August 1943, but this does not mean that he was in the camp on that date, it means that it was the last Italian camp he was known to have been in.

    I can't find him in the equivalent register for Germany, to where many prisoners being held in Italian camps were transferred after the Italian Armistice of 8 September 1943. I will have a look elsewhere and edit this post.

    Regards,

    Vitellino

    Edited: He was declared missing in Cyrenaica on 07/04/41 and was subsequently sent to Germany after the Italian Armistice. Check him out here: Name: Ernest Richard Cross . Date of Birth: 1/3/1918 . Place of Birth: Doncaster . ... | The National Archives
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
    Redd, JimHerriot, dbf and 1 other person like this.
  4. Coops_0031

    Coops_0031 Active Member

    Thank you for the information.
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  5. Coops_0031

    Coops_0031 Active Member

    I've found from the National Archives he went to Stalag XIA Altengrabrow after Italy. Thanks for the help
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  6. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    You're welcome!
     
    Coops_0031 and JimHerriot like this.
  7. Gareth Smith

    Gareth Smith Well-Known Member

    He seemingly also spent some time at Stalag 11B, Fallingbstel, Germany

    Initials E R
    Full Name Cross, E R
    Nationality British
    Resided Place Stalag 11B, Fallingbstel, Germany
    Fate Prisoner of War
    Information POW No. 139582
    Rank Name Sapper
    Service Number 1886571
    Service British Army
    Regiment Royal Engineers
    Conflict Period World War II
    Served For United Kingdom
     
  8. Gareth Smith

    Gareth Smith Well-Known Member

    JimHerriot and Coops_0031 like this.
  9. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    He would probably have spent some time in Benghazi camp before transfer to Italy.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
    JimHerriot and Coops_0031 like this.
  10. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    I found this too in WO 392/1, the register compiled by the IRC.

    However, I decided that the German Card held in The National Archives, which Coops_31 has already consulted, was likely to be more accurate:

    WO 416/83/236

    Description:


    Name: Ernest Richard Cross.
    Date of Birth: 1/3/1918.
    Place of Birth: Doncaster.
    Service: British Army.
    Rank: Sapper.
    Regiment/Unit/Squadron: Royal Engineers.
    Service Number: 1886571.
    Date of Capture: 09 April 1941.
    Theatre of Capture: North Africa.
    Camp Name/Number: Stalag XIA Altengrabow.
    PoW number: 139582.
    Date of Death: [unspecified].
    Number of Photographs: 1.
    Number of Fingerprints: 1.
    Number of X-rays: 1.
    Number of Cards: 4.

    Could you please tell us where you found this information, Gareth? I don't recognise the format. Here I can only confirm what you have suggested above, that Ernie's Red Cross record should be sent for. That will probably information about his North African camp. However, in the meantime Coops-31, if you don't have access to ancestry.com I suggest you find someonwho does and ask them if they wouldn't mind looking for his Liberation Report, which, if he filled it in with all his details, should list the camps he was held in.

    Regards

    Vitellino
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  11. Coops_0031

    Coops_0031 Active Member

    Hi Yes I have access to Ancestry. Will have a look. Thanks
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  12. Coops_0031

    Coops_0031 Active Member


    Hi apologies but the only records I can find on Ancestry relates to the German camp listed above, how would I find his Liberation report?
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  13. Gareth Smith

    Gareth Smith Well-Known Member

    Coops_0031, unfortunately he doesn't seem to have filled one out as I had already checked to see if he had one. Going forward if you have any others that you want to check, the collection is here: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/62114/

    Vitellino, I found the information on Fold3, but it also seems to tally with this PoW list: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imagevie...hsrc=MSX885&_phstart=successSource&pId=739709 and this PoW list: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imagevie...hsrc=MSX885&_phstart=successSource&pId=740935 where the camp is listed as 11B

    Also this record set: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/c...ss&count=50&f-F8007109=1886571&f-F8007109_x=1
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2024
    Coops_0031 and JimHerriot like this.
  14. Shin Gebis

    Shin Gebis Member

    Hope this helps, taken from the Doncaster Gazette 19th July 1941 page 3.regards.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Coops_0031

    Coops_0031 Active Member

    It does the man in the photo on the left is my grandad and the one on the left is his best man. Thank you very much never seen this before
     
    JimHerriot likes this.
  16. Coops_0031

    Coops_0031 Active Member

    Hi does anyone know what these entries are?

    Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  17. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Can't help with the above, sorry.

    Gareth, clicking on the links doesn't allow me to see the records as I have to sign in.

    I have attached the three lists provided by the Protecting Power/International Red Cross to the Casualties section (PW), held in the WO 392 series in The National Archives. It is true that Ernie might have moved between camps as was often the case, but the first German list was compiled in September 1944 and the second towards the end of the war (either March or April 1945 - I haven't checked.) It seems to me that the German Record card is more likely to be accurate, as it would probably have been compiled when the men arrived at the camp without the information having changed hands.


    Regards,

    Vitellino

    WO 392 1.jpg WO 392 11.jpg WO 392 21.jpg
     
    Coops_0031 and JimHerriot like this.
  18. Gareth Smith

    Gareth Smith Well-Known Member

    It is a strange one, hopefully the Red Cross records will help to clarify and show which camps he was in, though it would be odd to be recorded at one camp if he wasn't there.
     
    Coops_0031 and JimHerriot like this.

Share This Page