1st battalion Cameronians

Does anyone know who went to the 26 column and to the 90 column.
My father was in a vickers platoon at blackpool he was slightly wounded
but his partner killed.
He was one of the few still fit for duty at the end.
One of ninety odd men as he use to say.
thanks

 

Welcome to the forum burnbank chindit.

We have another member with strong Cameronian connections who will be pleased to see you on here.

Good luck.

Steve

 

The regimental history states that each column consisted of about 400 men and 60 animals. Each column was divided into four groups:

Contact Group
Fighting Group
Transport Group
Rearguard Group

Each group had its own Commander.

 

Welcome Burbank Chindit, I will second what Bamboo said, he is no slouch himself on the matter of Chindit's himself.... as the link below his signature will testify.

 

Not sure what year you are after but it may be worth checking the units diaries if you can get to the National Archives:

WO 172/855 1 Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 1942 Feb. - Dec.

WO 172/2502 1 Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 1943 Jan.- Dec.

WO 172/4873 1 Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 1944 Jan.- Mar.- Dec.

WO 172/7624 1 Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 1945 Jan.-Dec.

WO 172/10173 1 Cameronians 1946 Jan.- Sept.

Good luck with your research
Andy

 

Hi Burbank and welcome...

Who went to 26 or 90 will only (now) be known to those who were there - the records don't tend to specify (lower than officer) individuals unless there is something noteworthy or in the written form - I have a lot of info on both columns including pretty much everything from Kew (Cameronians being but one group of men) that there is relating to them, and most of the accounts that we know of from this forum...

My dad was with 90; as you probably know they were decimated at Blackpool and the remainder were merged into 26... I know of a couple of living Cameronians, one of which was in the final group that were there to the dissolution of the 111th... this number is referenced as being 119 men - 8 officers (including Masters'), 90 Gurkhas and the remainder being BOR's - if your dad was one of these men he was amongst very few others...

You will need to get his records if you have not got them yet - a lengthy process - months, not weeks, I'm afraid...

I could check through my (presently chaotic) notes to see if his name is mentioned, if you care to pass it on, and questions to ask you are how much you've already researched and what do you presently know...?

 

Hello Hebridean chindit
My father is Rifleman Richard Clark number14350059.
His records state that he entered the field concession on 19/1/1944 and left on
the 28/8/1944 ten days later he was admitted to 136IBSH and then discharged
on the 23/9/1944 only to readmitted on the 1/11/44.
If he did make it with Jack Master to Myitkyina I don't know but looks like it.

 

Hell Hedridean Chindit
I have some questions.
Why did Slim use Cameronians as his personal bodyguard?
I know the Cameronians where issued with bibles as their covenanter tradition did
many men take them with them?
And lastly have you come across air supplies that where booby trap and dropped
close to the Japanese?
Thanks

 

I'll reply to this in stages as I'm having some system issues and getting over a bug (102.5 virus - not PC )

Hi Burbank (love the typo on the last reply ), I'll do a check in my primaries and see if the name jumps out but (if you stay the distance) you'll learn that I have an unruly monster to tame that is my reference files - still gathering and haven't done much cross-referencing since I ran into a certain B43, and there was me with this little project...

Slim's bodyguard - he considered them (1st Batt) to be the toughest fighting battalion out there, bar none; also a reference to never being short of rum in his memoirs...
They were always known to have the ability to turn on a sixpence and fight, tooth-and-nail... or razor...

Books and bibles... yes, books were taken in and circulated but very little survived long as everything rotted - bibles...? probably/possibly... not found a mention yet, excluding the three Padre's/Chaplains, but...
This thread discusses what they (individually) took in...

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/burma-india/35574-chindits-damned-pack-just-how-heavy-really.html

Booby-trapped airdrops... commonly done if they could not be taken... my dad mentioned finding a "stray" one time his platoon went MIA and the risk/reward of opening one for just such reasons - they had no food, took the risk, and found catering-sized tins of pineapple (destined for the WA's, so they later discovered) and they scoffed the lot - about 8lbs each...! They all paid for that...

 

Date for his "entering concessional area" ties up with my dad's...
Date for hospitalisation was certainly post "Chindit" ops...

As a btw... an error on my earlier post...
The Cameronians were not included in the figure noted by Masters as I can only presume that the 119 were his own personnel in 48 Column...
There are comments of "refusing" to go any further, and being withdrawn post "Point 2171", which was the last battle the 111th were involved in...
I will ask the question of someone who was with them at this point, and the name...

No mention of his name in any of the "primary" Cameronian accounts, nor the secondary or 3 unpublished's I'm afraid...

Took me some years to find any corrobarating evidence to match comments my dad made in his MS when I hit paydirt - two commendations (courtesy of a far-too knowledgeable east European gent) - one for his Captain and the other for Rev Hawthorn - both for the same action - events and platoon references... also finding his references in the MIA files, suggested by B43, who spends more time than is surely legal at Kew...

Did he ever discuss any of the events at all...? I presume that he has now passed...

 

Sorry for the typo,not the best of starts
At Blackpool my Father and his partner who is unknown but was in the retreat of burma were hit by sharpnel, My Father partner was decapitated and my Father hit
in the neck and the chest where he had a bible.
He talked of being able to see the Japanese officers with their white gloves
and of the shooting of the wounded. ( he was in his seventies)

He also talked of having no food and waiting for a supply drop but the Japanese
were very close.
When the Daks came over they the drop landed closer to the Japanese.
The cams called the Daks all the names under the sun untill the suppilies exploded.

I talked with a vet who dropped suppilies but he has no knowledge of it.

Thanks Stuart

 

Hi Stuart, typos are my life... I like the white gloves line and may discuss the use of a quote in my notes if I may... the fighting got a lot closer than that the night before... my dad was also badly wounded (third event at Blackpool) by shrapnel on the 25th May which is what finished him for this op but it was malaria that finished him in this sphere...

Most of those Dakotas never made it home...

 

Bye all means you can use it.
If you give me your email I will sent you some photos.

On a lighter note as you know Glasgow is catholic or protestant.
After Sunday church service RC's were told to take one step forward to
Volunteer for latrine duty.

 

Just a quick response - checked the MIA's and no mention in there...

 

Hello Ken

I was looking at the regimental map of Blackpool and remembered what my Dad said about the the Japanese officer with white glove, He was on one side of a valley and
the officer on the other side.
The ground in front on 90 col looks very flat as apposed to 26 col second position to the
north where there is a valley and lastly my Dad always said he was hit by shelling ( not
Sure if you can tell the difference)

Just ordered A Chindit CHronicle here it has a good map of Blackpool

 

I have nearly 20 differing maps of Blackpool at present - one of the projects is to create as accurate a layout map as possible using satellite info as the groundwork - present images are "lacking" but give accurate positioning of the chaungs and relation to road/rail areas.

Bill Towill's account is a good one - he was there for the last five days - the worst five days... 44,000 word book...

 

Hi

I'm a newby to both this site and to forum protocol which I will brush up on.

Like many before me I am now belatedly piecing together any info on my late father Jonathan Dalziel wartime experiences with first Battalion Cameronians and as we will be visiting Burma later this year hoping to possibly visit in the broad vicinity of where he fought. All I can remember from the scant comments he made were:
- He was in the retreat and the return in Burma
- service in India and Burma 1940 to 45
- Slim saying we will retake Burma in a month?
- He talked of Dhera Dun (forgive spelling)
- He kept up with a Cameronian pal Bill Seater ? who lived in Edinburgh and would pay his respects to fallen comrades when he visited Edinburgh Castle
- Went religiously to the Cameronian Remembrance service in Glasgow Cathedral
-I have his wartime service no and also much of his kit he brought back (Kukri knife, ,,used to cut hedge and alarm neighbours.. shoe cleaning kit! Blanket shaving kit (including nail file!!)

Any advice on how to best trace his unit would then allow me to trace where he fought. Keen to see some of the terrain where they fought if possible during our trip, may have to peel off from my wife for a few days. Not just wanting to see temples and pagodas,,, but not doing a Joe Simpson retrace of Dad's footsteps.(nor I believe ,would he want me to).. Spoke to Kentingen House in Glasgow but who said there would be limited info they could provide. Your site / forum seems to provide best anecdotal info which is fascinating information. Sorry for the jumbled request but thanks again in advance of any suggestions... Oh he was a Corporal and then ..I think laterally a Sargent...

Regards

Alistair Dalziel

 

I'll come back to you later, Alistair, with some relevants, but his name does not come up in my notes... 800 men in two columns of 400 with no master list that exists, and a diary that is "missing"...

First thing that is an essential, is his war records from the Army records office... a 3 to 9 month waiting period, once ordered... sometimes, unfortunately, this shows whether he went in or not...

Unless he told you or it is noted in his paperwork, whether he was in 26 or 90 column will remain a mystery...

http://ww2talk.com/forums/forum/53-burma-india/

The above link is to the pages you are on and if you look through the "Blackpool" , 111th, and "Damned Pack" threads that are pinned there that will be a starter

 

Hi Alistair,

HC is right, you need to send off for his service records. If you have your Dad's service number, then there should be no problem in getting these from Glasgow.

Good luck going forward.

 

Thanks to HC and Bamboo

Firstly I perhaps wrongly assumed that army personnel below officer level were allocated to the columns 26 and 90th on a Glasgow (26th) and Rest of Scotland/ Perth (90th) origin basis reflecting the regimental history but perhaps it was more random!

I have given my Dad's service number to a very helpful lady at Kentigen House but again who advised that only limited info would be forthcoming, Anyway I have put the wheels in motion and apply... I am in London fairly regularly so will see what I can find next time down and will visit the Imperial War Museum. (...Kew is I understand only First World War records?)

I'm checking out the Forum on the Retreat from Burma as I know he was definitely on that in 42? and will slowly piece together the jigsaw as I go along.. I have also received something through from South Lanarkshire Council Archivist to whom all questions relating to the Cameronians are now routed since the Hamilton Regimental Museum is not manned by Regimental related personnel so exploring that side as well

Thanks again chaps for all the helpful advice