1st time post/newbie, Italy Route and more Autumn 1944 to end 1946.

Hello apologies, first time post and asking quite a lot here and not sure what page to put this on or if I should post individually to ask questions? Please. I am just about getting to grips of some of the abbreviations too.

In brief and what I have so far.
I received my G.Uncles war records for his time in British Army. I am particularly interested in his time in Italy, he was in the RE in the CMF Autumn 1944 to end of 1946. It looks like he spent the whole time in TN Trans Stores and 5 units. I have spend a few years trying to trace his routes in Italy and more and I feel overwhelmed with information which has gone down more rabbit holes.

I'd like to know if I can ask or how to find out:
1) Which port he may have landed in Italy from 28 Sept 1944 to beginning of October, (its not clear what date he got to Italy, but he was in his first unit by 8 October).
2) It doesn't mention what area he started in, in Italy, can I ever find this out? (it only mentions Bologna 18 months later and then Pordenone La Comina another 1 year later at that point a physical exam, commending and then being released.
3) The port he left Italy from? (there was a mention from a family member that he had been in Naples briefly for some leave or maybe he'd gone back to London from the Naples port instead of Pordenone?)
4) Are there any particular routes that have been found, yet?
5) Why he was in so many units? (5)
6) What trans stores did?
7) Would there have been any other medals if he'd have been in the battle of Bologna? (Just mentions 1 awarded on war records)

Thank you for your time and thoughts in advance.

 

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

It might help other members to help you if you post the original service record on the forum so members can see it for themselves. The experts might spot something you've missed.

At the very least you need to post his full name, rank, number and the names of the 5 units you allude to him serving in - together with the dates served in each.

As for medals - if he served in Italy for only a short time before the end of the war he would earn the Italy Star but if he served there or accumulated further service in another Theatre of War (or earlier campaign ie France 1939/40) for at least 180 days he would additionally earn 1939/45 Star.

He would earn the 39/45 War Medal for 28 days service in the Army and depending on how long he served in UK and in a none Theatre of War posting overseas he may be eligible for Defence Medal. Relevant end date for medal entitlement for service in Europe is 8th May 1945.

Members may be able to better identify his medal entitlement and answer your other queries if they have sight of his papers.

Good Luck

Steve

 

Hello,

Thank you for answering about the medals (I'm not bothered in getting them, was purely just interested).
I don't wish to add his name and service records in a public domain, however I can tell you he was a Sapper and if anyone else is interested in helping with these general questions and replies to this then I will add his Unit numbers, I don't have names just unit numbers and 1 area.

thanks again.

 

That’s fine as long as you appreciate you may get “non specific/speculative” responses from members - like mine about Medals - by providing limited information.

I’ll leave it to others…..I’m not one for drawing speculative conclusions from tenuous internet links as it won’t help you in the long run.

Steve

 

Margaret,

Welcome aboard.

I have always found this the best reference for WW2 abbreviations: WW2 Abbreviations and Acronyms | Researching the Lives and Records of WW2 Soldiers One small snag you cannot copy and paste the text.

His time spent abroad should appear on his records, but if he only reached Italy (via wherever) in September 1944 his priority to return (search for Python & LIAP here) on leave would not be high, unless there were pressing family concerns and his trade / skill was in demand.

An interim reply to your questions:

It is rare to my knowledge for an individual's record to show the port of disembarkation. Use was made of several Italian ports, notably Naples, but also Bari and Taranto. It could also depend on where the 8th Army was fighting, they did change to the Adriatic at one point. His unit War Diary might mention the port used..

That should be in his unit's War Diary, though you may have to use which division his unit(s) were supporting.

Depends when he left. I have seen records showing a return by train via Milan and France to a Channel port. Bear in mind millions were being demobilized and soldiers being sent out to Italy plus.

Sea voyages would go via Gibraltar and then onto a number of west coast UK ports, Bristol, Liverpool and Glasgow notably appear. The south coast could be used, though logically they would handle traffic to & from NW Europe.

The Army decided where he was best posted. The number of UK divisions in Italy were reduced before D-Day (June 1944) and there were significant manpower shortages. A division returning to the UK would I expect take their assigned RE units back with them.

Is trans shorthand for transport? Not a RE expert. What have you found online?

UK medals were not issued for specific battles, they were issued for bravery and campaigns.

 

Thank you very much,

I will have a look at the abbreviations list.

Thank you, noted on the ports, I wasn't sure if I could narrow this down at all to the dates, he did have 5 months in ITALY followed by a bereavement back home, nothing there about ports. There is a mention of LIAP which was 'disembrked Dover riembarked Dover' (<< helpful) :0(.

I have no idea about his division, any clues to how I will find that?

8/11/44 UNIT 922 TN STORES
2/5/45 UNIT 1069 TN STORES
15/9/45 UNIT 196 TN STORES
31/5/46 - 18/9/46 UNIT 156 TN STORES

I guess its a guess how he got home.

I found that its transportation stores, but there are mixed messages about what that is, some say worked in the ports, some say went around with the others.

Yes it just says medal awarded but nothing else, there were a few pages that looked like that had been torn or amiss again a guess.

Thank you for your time in replying and typing all that out, I will put the units below too.

 

The units my GUncle was included in, in ITALY as follows:

Total just over 2 years

8/11/44 UNIT 922 TN STORES
2/5/45 UNIT 1069 TN STORES
15/9/45 UNIT 196 TN STORES
31/5/46 - 18/9/46 UNIT 156 TN STORES

 

I have put the units below, thank you.

 

I did an online search with: ""royal engineers" + "transportation stores" site:ww2talk.com and that id'd the work of Trux on army organization for D-Day.

Being British two types (unknown why):

From Post 1: PORT and INLAND WATERWAY UNITS ROYAL ENGINEERS

Two posts on pgs. 2 & 3 for 196 Transportation Stores though on: BEF Movement and Maintenance.

Too many hits on the first search, so amend to "transportation stores" site:ww2talk.com adding the unit number; that may identify threads!

Alas not clear under whose command such units came, I suggest it would be the Docks Group.

 

Thank you so much I will have a look really appreciate your time