27 LAA Regt (TA) RA

Discussion in 'Royal Artillery' started by 107 Bty 27 LAA Regt, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. Hi

    I'm researching the history of the 27th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, in which my Grandfather served with 107 Battery untill his capture in North Africa on 21 June 1942. We have a certain amount of information about him after his capture but not much about the events leading up to then

    The plan is that once I have some more information about the regiment to publish it all on the internet, with further information about the four Battery's as well as a section about my Grandfather.

    So far I've been able to establish that the Regiment comprised of No's 6, 107, 113 and 149 Battery's. 6th Battery already has a great website. I have obtained a copy of "History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, Anti-Aircraft Artillery, 1914-55" and rather dissapointingly at first glance 107 Battery doesn't seem to be listed in the index, although the other three Battery's are, plenty of references to the Regiment so I can see a lot of reading ahead.

    Looking at TNA there is obviously some information there about the Battery for 1941 and 1942, as well as plenty about the other three Battery's and the Regiment so I can also several visits coming up there.

    I'll post up some more information about my Grandfather on the POW and Research forums.

    If any one has any further information, or advice on where to look, about the Regiment and Battery's it would be great to hear from you, if nothing more than to confirm my own findings.

    Thanks in advance

    Chris
     
  2. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    "History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, Anti-Aircraft Artillery, 1914-55


    Still thinking of getting the book
     
  3. Kieron Hill

    Kieron Hill Senior Member

    Hi Chris

    It looks like you have done a far bit of your
    homework and you are just looking for the
    last bits of your jigsaw...good luck.

    here is a link to a good website I dont know
    if you have come across it.

    RA 1939-45 27 LAA

    Cheers
    Kieron
     
  4. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    I've looked in the RA Commemoration Book 1939-45 and can't find any entries for 27 LAA there. If I'm correct, the 6th Coleraine Battery website (and a book) was done by one of the members of this Forum! It is excellent.

    As Kieron says, I think you have already done a fair bit. You just need a bit of luck to finish your search off.

    Rob
     
  5. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Chris - from the fact that he was captured around the end of June '42 - strikes me that he was possibly with the 50th Division - possibly 150 Bde when they were overrun on the way back on what was known as the "Gazala Gallop" which finished at El Alamein in the july of '42 ...might be worth checking out .
    Cheers
     
  6. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Chris

    Just a quick welcome aboard and to wish you good luck with your research.

    You appear to be doing all the right things, if you need any further general help that you think I might be able to provide (as an ex Ack Ack man myself) please return to this thread.

    Regards

    Ron
     
    Lynne Murray likes this.
  7. Quick update

    We've been to TNA to obtain copies of the Battery War Diaries and now busy transcribing these into a readable format.

    It would appear that 107 LAA Bty was ostensibly involved in providing LAA cover at a number of Airfields and Landing Grounds (LG) between Tobruk and Alamein.

    Here's the first problem, the diaries refer to a number of LG only by number, is any one aware of a definitve list of the LG's by reference number, with details of their locations ? I've managed to work out some by trawling through a number of websites and trying to put together a list. The New Zealand Electronic Text Centre is an absolute gold mine for information and maps etc. I'm having a particular problem identifying a LG at Baheira, or something like that, it's pretty hard translating some of the hand written text.

    From the the diaries its interesting to learn that although nominally part of 27 LAA Regt, 107 LAA Bty was under the operational command of 88 HAA Regt from mid November 1941 and the 68 HAA Regt from 22 May 1942, when they were providing LAA cover for the Harbour at Tobruk, where they were captured in Rommel's second offensive in June 1942. Unfortunatly the Battery War Diaries do not exist for June 1942 for obvious reasons.

    Has anyone done any research at Firepower ? Do they hold any different or additional infomation to that at TNA ?

    Now I need another trip back to the TNA to look at the War Diaries for these other regiments and their batteries to see if I can learn any other information. Bit of a never ending quest. o_O
     
  8. handtohand22

    handtohand22 Senior Member

    6LAA Battery did not become part of 27 LAA Regiment (TA) RA until early 1944. At that time they were formed up as part of 4 AGRA (Army Group Royal Artillery) for the invasion of Europe. I will check through my records to see if they met up prior to that in the Western Desert.

    I am also waiting for a copy of Richard Doherty's book on the history of the RA during WW2 which should throw some light on the matter.
     
  9. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Hi 107

    I've done the same research into another LAA Regiment (My Dad's) at both Firepower and the NA. Firepower hold the second copy of the war diaries and I actually found more papers in the diaries held at Kew.


    Regards - Robert
     
  10. simonevetts113

    simonevetts113 Junior Member

    hi chris,

    my grandad was in 113th battery, i have done much research and also been in touch with the administrator of the coleraine battery. i have 90 original photos from his early days right through to the end of the war, i also own his original medals. i am currently serving in the army myself. have you considered doing a Subject Access Request(SAR) on your grandad from the national archives, all WW2 records are still held n glasgow but it is possible to obtain copies providing you fill out the correct paperwork. is your website going to be 107th specific or covering all 4 batterys ? i would like to help if poss ? feel free to contact me on simonevetts113@hotmail.co.uk
     
  11. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    Chris,

    Good luck with your research.....don't forget to look at other docs at the NA such as the CRA for the Division/Army.....you often find things in these that the unit ones don't.....
     
  12. Arthur

    Arthur Senior Member

    Chris,

    So close and yet so far away. My father served in 114th L.A.A. Bty 26th L.A.A. Regt. [Gibraltar]

    I have found the following information in 'Frederick's Linege of the British Army Vol 2.' regarding the 27th L.A.A. Regt.

    R.H.Q. formed at Newark, Notts on 28th Aug 1939 with 107th & 149th L.A.A. Btys.
    Early 1940 113th L.A.A. Bty [ex 28th L.A.A. Regt] joined.
    18th Jan 1944 6th L.A.A. Bty [ex 2nd L.A.A. Regt] joined. [mentioned in post 8]
    14th March 1944 reduced to cadre after Tobruk, cadre then dispersed.

    As for landing grounds, a list is shown along with their locations on maps in Wing Commander C. G. Jefford's 'R.A.F. Squadrons'.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards
    Arthur
     
  13. op-ack

    op-ack Senior Member

    6LAA Battery did not become part of 27 LAA Regiment (TA) RA until early 1944. At that time they were formed up as part of 4 AGRA (Army Group Royal Artillery) for the invasion of Europe. I will check through my records to see if they met up prior to that in the Western Desert.

    I am also waiting for a copy of Richard Doherty's book on the history of the RA during WW2 which should throw some light on the matter.

    I wouldn't hold your breath on their being much in Richards book about this subject, it is a very good, brief, overall look at the RA during WW2, but it is too big a subject for a single volume. That said, I would recommend it to anyone looking for a single volume overview of the RA during that period, although there are some errors. (minor ones!).

    Phil
     
  14. handtohand22

    handtohand22 Senior Member

    Just posting some material on the final months of 27th LAA Rgt RA.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Lynne Murray

    Lynne Murray Member

    Hello everyone, looking at the dates of everyone's posts i would say I am 10 years too late to seek help from anyone on here. Well I hope not.I have some of my Grandfathers War information his name was Thomas William Murray born holborn 27/4/1912. The card I have states the following Service number 11264097 Name Murray, Thomas William Enlisted 4 - 9 - 1941 Unit 25th Field Reg RA* below this is 2.2.46. above the Unit 25th Field is * 27 LAA. Regt 5/2/1944 In a separate line reads Release 1338/46 Y bst 7. 2/9146 next line reads "Release 1560/46 Z/T Res 24/11/46" Please note that the bst and Res is a guess as in handwriting. also in top right hand corner is 15/3 and 151/118 and above UNIT is 1154/46. I do know grandad was a Gunner and that he was a driver. His uniform carried the patches of the black boar in white circle. A white Y in black circle and a white PLUS SIGN within black circle and outer white circle. I have these framed with his medals and photo's of him during the liberation of brussels. You will see from the attached my father put a briefing together (he has now passed away). I was wondering if anyone can please guide me in the direction of finding out anymore specific information relating to my grandad. I would greatly appreciate it. Lynne Murray (granddaughter) Aust.
     

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  16. Lynne Murray

    Lynne Murray Member

    Hello Again, Just in case someone sees my message above I have pulled out the photos of my Granddad in case you are interested. Speaking with my mum this morning Granddad (Thomas"Tommy" William Murray 11264097) was definitely at Bergen - Belsen and was one of the first there. She remembers vividly asking him about Belsen and apart from saying it was something he could never describe he fobbed it off and said as we went in what made things worse, "I had to kill two dogs", mum asked how did you do that and he said "with my bloody Bren Gun didn't I" ..he wouldn't talk further about it. Thomas "Tommy" William Murray born holborn 27/4/1912. The card I have states the following Service number 11264097 Name Murray, Thomas William Unit 25th Field Reg RA* below this is 2.2.46. above the Unit 25 Field is * 27 LAA. Regt 5/2/1944 In a separate line reads Release 1338/46 Y bst 7. 2/9146 next line reads "Release 1560/46 Z/T Res 24/11/46" Please note that the bst and Res is a guess as in handwriting. also in top right hand corner is 15/3 and 151/118 and above UNIT is 1154/46. I do know granddad was a Gunner and that he was a driver. His uniform carried the patches of the black boar in white circle. A white Y in black circle and a white PLUS SIGN within black circle and outer white circle. I have these framed with his medals and photo's of him during the liberation of brussels. You will see from the attached my father put a briefing together (he has now passed away). I was wondering if anyone can please guide me in the direction of finding out anymore specific information relating to my granddad. I would greatly appreciate it. Lynne Murray (granddaughter) Aust.
     

    Attached Files:

    PackRat likes this.
  17. John Kay

    John Kay New Member

    Lynne Murray - saw your very recent post. I occasionally have a look at this area on line so don’t be too disheartened if anyone else doesn’t come back to you quickly. I’ve also been wondering about finding out more since my dad John “Jack” Kay passed away. He never wanted to speak much about his wartime experiences. He was originally in the RA TA from1938 in Liverpool and got mobilised just before the war. His TA unit was assimilated quickly into 113 Battery 27 Regt LAA RA and he saw action with the 8th Army in North Africa, Sicily, Italy and pulled back to England for the D Day invasion, his 3rd seaborne invasion. He was awarded the military medal in Normandy and must have been with your grandad as they were the first Liberating Troops into the Grand Place Square in Brussels. I have pictures of him in a few Bren gun carriers there surrounded by the cheering population. His picture featured in a local newspaper and he sent a copy back to England. As part of 30 Corps he went through Ardennes, Nijmegen rush towards Arnhem and ended up like your grandad liberating a few concentration camps including one called Sandbostel where I understand there is a holocaust museum as well. my dad then guarded SS troops for war crimes processing before he was demobbed in 1946 returned to Liverpool and got on with his life. I think the black boar in the white circle is the uniform shoulder flash of XXX (30) Corps. I’m currently working away from the U.K. and will retire in a few years so aim to fully research what my dad did as well. As the posts above suggest you could try the army archives in Scotland and apply for your grandads service record. As next of kin you will need to demonstrate he is deceased by sending a copy of his death certificate (And maybe your dads?) before they will release it to you for a fee. Good luck!
     
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  18. Lynne Murray

    Lynne Murray Member

    Thank you so much for your reply.... I really dont have much of an idea how to research past what I am doing.
     
  19. Lynne Murray

    Lynne Murray Member

    This is a photo of the photo i have of brussels liberation and grandad.
     

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  20. John Kay

    John Kay New Member

    You could also access the unit war diaries as well. If you look at what others have done/suggested in the previous threads that should give you some ideas. Also some may already have the material you would go after so maybe they could share that material. I’ve left a lot of my dads War stuff in storage in the U.K. whilst I’m working away, but have a few photos with me that I will try to upload. Good luck.
     
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