2978170 Joseph Patrick KENNEDY, A&SH, POW 6074: Need Help Interpreting Service Records

I have uploaded a copy of my grandfathers service record. I would appreciate if someone could help decipher it for me, there is so much on there I don’t understand and lots of abbreviations.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks

Andrew

 

Andrew

Thanks for posting the copy records.

I will take a look at these and revert back to you with my interpretation later today.

Steve W

EDIT - I'm afraid cannot add anything further to Steve's excellent interpretation below, except to add that most of the period he was with 1 A&SH, they were part of 161 Indian Infantry Brigade, 4th Indian Infantry Division.

 

Hi,

You've posted 3 pages of his B103 Casualty Form (Pages 1,2 & 4 in your download) and the W3040 (Page 3) used to record information on men taken POW. The W3040 is an unusual form for MOD to release so you have been lucky.

I’ll go through them in chronological order and post updates here as I go along and hopefully get to the end of it by the end of today.

Hopefully 2 heads are better than one and sjw8 and I will be able to provide a decent interpretation of what you have posted about your grandfather.

W3040 (continuation form) -

The first couple of lines refer to communiques from Tunisia reporting him missing in action 2nd April 1943 and received by the Infantry Record office 11th April.

This would lead to the immediate despatch of a telegram to his next of kin and likely the Army pro forma B104-3830 was posted to the family 17th April 1943 instructing them to let the Infantry Record Office know if they received any communication from the soldier. This is followed by an entry from his NOK notifying a change of address dated 6th May 1943 in the right hand column.

The first official notice that he was POW was received by way of a signal from Swiss Red Cross (ICRC) 9th May 1943 stating he is POW in Italian hands but that is quickly followed by another message that he is PG66. PG66 was a transit camp near Naples where POW from North Africa remained for a short time before allocation to another POW camp


The next 2 entries are dated 14th August 1943 in the left hand column and are regarding his “presumed” escape from Italian custody and subsequent recapture and transfer to German custody at Stalag 18A in Austria.

Stalag XVIII-A - Wikipedia

It is unclear where he was detained at the time of his escape and dates are omitted. I note that there is an entry in the right hand column to the effect his his NK were informed 6th May 1944. I expect he would’ve passed through Stalag 7A at Moosburg as that was a transit camp for POW coming from Italy.

I suggest you apply to Swiss Red Cross in late September for any records they hold as they may clarify his POW chronology. You get a reply via email usually after 6 to 8 weeks.

Requests for information about people held during Spanish Civil War or Second World War: Quarterly limit reached

The next entries are immediately post war and note his arrival in Allied hands in southern Italy 9th June 1945 (that may be from the embarkation list for his flight home and I expect he may have been Italy for over a month by that time).

The final entry suggests he returned to U.K. from Italy by air and is from a nominal roll of (arrivals?) completed at 113 Reception Camp (location not known) and dated 12th June 1945 reporting that he was sent on the usual 6 weeks POW post release leave from 13th June 1945 to 26th July 1945.

Men passed very quickly through the Reception camps and had cursory medicals and were issued with new kit and back pay etc. One of the requirements there was to complete a POW Liberation Questionnaire. Ancestry have recently put 85k+ POW questionnaires on their site and you may want to check it out to see if he completed one (not all did) as it may better inform you about his POW movements.

While he was on leave he would be called for a more thorough medical to assess his medical category and fitness for further active service - albeit returning POW were not to be sent abroad within 6 months of their return to U.K.

At the end of 6 weeks leave returning POW would be posted to a Selection & Training Unit for a fortnight to have various aptitude and fitness tests and from there be would be posted to a suitable unit pending demobilisation.

His B103 is silent on any postings after his return from overseas. As I’m surmising he was a time expired pre war regular soldier by that time perhaps he simply remained at home until his release on terminal leave in November 1945 but I doubt that was the case.

FIRST B103

You haven’t posted any other Army forms but from my reading of the papers your grandfather looks to have been a pre war regular soldier or possibly had pre war TA service. It is unclear from the papers you have posted whether he was a recalled reservist in 1939 posted to 8 A&SH (a territorial unit) or a pre war part time member of that unit but you may be able to clarify.

It appears that he went overseas with his unit as part of 51st Highland Division in early 1940. He had a weeks attachment to 1st Black Watch, 12th Brigade, 4th Division in late April 1940.

51st (Highland) Division - Wikipedia

Your grandfather was back with 8 A&SH at the time of the destruction of the 51 Highland Div at St Valery en Caux in early June 1940. Other forum members have commented recently that 15th June 1940 seems to be a catch all “final” date used for admin purposes to record the return of men to U.K. from the BEF post Dunkirk.

Capt. J.D. Inglis' Account of C Coy.'s Capture | Account | 51st Highland Division Website

There appear to be 2 out of sequence minor discipline entries towards the top of the B103 that appear to have been committed when he was serving in the Shetland Isles in autumn 1940.

Having been recorded as being back in U.K. 15th June 1940 he is recorded as being posted to Y list 10th July 1940 for some unknown reason. It was likely that he had suffered an illness or injury.

He is posted to Number 1 Infantry Training Centre 30th July 1940 - likely on recovery from his illness/injury - and is speedily posted to 11 A&SH 8th August 1940. The forum search engine may assist re the location of 1 ITC. The survivors of 7 & 8 A&SH from BEF were reformed in Scotland based on 10 & 11 A&SH.

He has a weeks leave with ration allowance from 9th to 16th September 1940 before the unit were posted to Shetland Isles as part of Shetland Defences.

HQ Shetland Defences, OSDEF – 22 September 1941 to 14 October 1942
The 11th Battalion left the 154th Infantry Brigade on September 22nd, 1941 and moved to Fochabers. It was then sent to Sumburgh in the Shetlands as part of OSDEF on airfield and coast defence duties. It remained at Sumburgh until the first half of October 1942. It rejoined the 44th Infantry Brigade on the mainland on October 14th, 1942.

He is granted a weeks embarkation leave from 18th to 26th December 1941 in anticipation of an overseas posting. He is posted to 8 ITC at Perth for about 6 weeks before departing U.K. 13th February 1942 likely on convoy WS16, latterly WS16A.

WS (Winston Specials) Convoys in WW2 - 1942 Sailings

He was part of a reinforcement draft to 1st A&SH then in Egypt. He arrives in Egypt 13th April 1942. After a short period of acclimatisation (getting his knees brown) he went on an Anti Tank Gunners course at the Infantry Base Depot commencing 6th May 1942 - likely a 2 weeks course.

SECOND B103

He continues on training courses at the Infantry Base Depot (Geneifa, Egypt?) in June and July 1942 qualifying as a wheeled vehicle driver in June 1942 and a Carrier (tracked vehicle) driver in July.

He has a further minor brush with military discipline in early August 1942. I think forum member AB64 may be able to assist in interpreting the quoted section of the Army Act.

He applied for a transfer to L Detachment SAS and was transferred to that unit in late August 1942 when he would likely commence a period of training. It would appear he did not pass the training course and was “returned to unit” arriving back at the Infantry Base Depot in early October 1942 to await an onward posting.

The reconstituted 51st Highland Division had arrived in Egypt in summer 1942 and it looks like he was posted to 7th A&SH in that division 4th November 1942.

The next entry appears to be out of sequence and appears to be regarding the award of a Long Service and good conduct pay increment in summer 1940. Eligibility was 8 years service and 3 years clear of an entry in his Regimental Conduct Sheet (B120). I’m not sure whether TA service counted hence my suggestion he was a pre war regular but I look forward to your clarification in due course.

The last 2 entries concern his being taken POW, apparently still with 7 A&SH, in Tunisia in early April 1943.


THIRD B103

The first 2 entries confirm his POW status at Stalag 18A in May 1944 and his return to U.K. as a repatriated POW in June 1945. I can’t actually see him listed in my hard copy of WO392/01 but I know later POW lists were published. Forum member vitellino may be able to assist re his time as a. POW in Italy. You may also benefit from sight of his entries on the official U.K. casualty lists available on Findmypast

I’m surprised there is no entry about his movements after his 6 weeks POW leave until his terminal leave. B103 were maintained in triplicate and it may be that the relevant entries are on the other 2 copies that have not been provided. They may no longer exist as they may have been destroyed in the distant past in accordance with MOD policy.

The final entry is a stamp regarding his almost 3 months terminal leave commencing 6th November 1945 that ended with his discharge to Class Z Army Reserve 2nd February 1946. He would have received the standard 56 days terminal leave and a further 56 days based on his overseas service.

Hope all the above makes sense. If you have any queries please ask.

Now you have information on his unit postings you can use the forum search engine to see what, if anything, has been posted on the forum previously.

Steve

 

Andrew,

For complicated reasons all Allied prisoners whether captured in North Africa by the Germans or Italians were handed into Italian custody. Other ranks were shipped back by sea and officers often flown back (a journey not without risk of attack by the Allies).

There are many threads here on individual Italian POW Camps and a number refer to Allied POWs leaving their camps when the Italian guards either "melted away" or agreed to them leaving. Those who stayed in the camps were swiftly removed to Germany. Some of escaping / leaving POWs made it back to Allied lines overland, were captured by the Germans (and allies) or fought with the partisans.

 

it may not apply in this case as his “escape and recapture” followed by removal to Austria pre date the Sept 1943 armistice (entries dated 14/8/1943).

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

Thank you so much for your detailed response. This is more than I could ever have envisioned and there is such a wealth of information there and it has allowed me to have such an amazing insight to my grandad’s time in the Army and the experiences he would have had.

When you see it all lain out like that it does make you realise how amazing these men were and the experiences and travels they underwent. Each soldier with his own story to tell. I find it fascinating.

Even with all this information there are still so many questions. I’m sure everyone feels the same when researching loved ones. We have the luxury these days of seeing our past and present experiences saved on our phones and hard drives and can go back and watch videos of ourselves and family and see what they look and sound like.

And what an unexpected entry, my grandad joining L Detachment SAS brigade, albeit briefly. I wonder if there any records held for individuals joining or training with them. Amazing.

What I would like to try and decipher is which battles he would have taken part in as the service record only stated which country he was in at any given time. I’m guessing you can find this out by seeing what the regiment what doing on the specific dates? Sorry, I’m so new to all this.

I feel like I have asked too much of you already but thought I would attach the full files anyway in case there was something that peaked your interest in the first file. The attached file contains all of the rest of the service record they gave me.

I am so grateful for your time, thank you so much again.

Andrew

 

Thanks so much sjw8!

 

Hi Andrew,

You’re welcome. Thanks for sharing the additional material.

Members may be interested to have sight of the papers created during his pre war service as annual appraisals and discharge papers were never released by MOD. I’ve seen similar material in Scots Guards files on FMP. Simple details of his wounding 13th June will be in Casualty records on FMP site and likely explain his July 1940 posting to Y list.


You really ought to seek out histories regarding 8th A&SH service with BEF in 1940 and 7 A&SH service with 8th Army November 1942 until April 1943. At the time of his capture he may have been serving with a composite 7/10 A&SH Battalion (the entry in the service record is unclear) - likely due to losses sustained by each battalion in the weeks leading up to his capture and the lack of reinforcements.

History of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders 7th Battalion from El Alamein to Germany by Captain Ian C Cameron

A history of 51st Highland Division would give you an overview. A recent reprint is here and you may be able to get a copy on loan from a local library if you are in the U.K. -

HISTORY OF THE 51st HIGHLAND DIVISION 1939-1945 - Naval & Military Press.

Once you have an overview you may wish to look more deeply and the unit war diaries may be of interest - although he likely won’t be named.

Forum member Drew5233 has an interest in 1940 campaign and may already have a copy of 8 A&SH war diary that he could let you have at a price much much cheaper than National Archives. He may even let you have a free copy of the page for 13th June 1940 so you can see what the unit were doing on the day your grandfather was wounded.

You also need to use the forum search engine. Your grandfather is listed in the nominal roll in this website -

Stalag 18A

Extract from Red Cross inspection report August 1944 -

“At the date of visit, the complement of British prisoners of war within Stalag XVIIIA numbered as follows:

At the base camp, Wolfsberg 746 men
At the branch camp, Spittal 245 men
Detailed on the 313 Work detachments 9571 men
Total strength 10362 men

Roughly two thirds of these men have been captured during the Greek and Cretan campaigns of 1941; many of them come from far away Australia and New Zealand. Following the Italian armistice in 1943, some 3500 more British prisoners arrived from ex-Italian captivity, making the total strength up to the present figure. The latter are captures of the North African campaigns and originate partly from Britain and the Union of South Africa.”

I’ll have a look at the additional papers tomorrow as Sky Sports are now calling me……

Steve

PS

Reports would have been generated regarding his posting to SAS and his return to IBD. Whether those reports are still on his file is a moot point as they may have been weeded out in years gone by. In any event if they are still on the file MOD/NA won’t release them under their current policy. You may get sight of them once it is possible to visit the Archives to physically check the files. That is likely some time off - probably after Ancestry have put the material on their site.

PPS

There is no Army Medal Office stamp on his record so his WW2 Campaign Medals may not have been issued. They had to be applied for and many men didn’t bother. You can download the form and NOK can apply for his entitlement - likely 39/45 Star, Africa Star with 8th Army Clasp, 39/45 War Medal and possibly The Defence Medal (complicated entitlement rules).

Apply for a medal or veterans badge

His India GSM were likely issued when he was serving.The medal rolls are on Ancestry and will indicate whether they were issued. If not NOK could try to claim them.

 

Hi,

I’ll go through the service record pages as they are in your 2nd PDF bundle -

1. Front Page B103.

This form would’ve been commenced on his enlistment - albeit the officers dated signature at the top is 23rd November 1939 - and was subject to update throughout his service. It was a 2 sided form and you attached P2 detailing his initial movements after he went overseas yesterday. Continuation P2 would be used if necessary.

You will see at the top that it records he was taken POW 2nd April 1943 and the word PHYTHON. Phython was a scheme to return men who had been overseas for 3 years to U.K. for 6 months before redeployment. Your grandfather would’ve qualified for Phython leave in February 1945 but his entitlement was overtaken by the separate agreement not to send repatriated POW overseas for 6 months.

At the bottom of the form you will see written ASG 19 and O/seas 4/213 days to 2/9/44. The services devised a Age/Service Group grid to create groups of men for an orderly demobilisation post war based on the year of birth and date of enlistment (1st September for men serving prior to the declaration of war). Men would be discharged in strict order - even men like your grandfather who was past the “time served” date on his regular army enlistment

As part of the army census process note was also made of time spent overseas to calculate the soon to be adopted Phython leave scheme. I think they have calculated your grandfathers time overseas based on his departure in early 1940 - ignoring the 18+ months or so he spent in U.K. post Dunkirk.

2. Army Form B220b - A

The statement of services form notes his movements during his service and records the entries in his regimental conduct sheet as they were relevant for the character endorsements on his discharge testimonial.

You can see he enlisted at Glasgow 9.4.1931 for the usual Infantry of The Line period of 7 years full time service with the colours followed by 5 years reserve service (Brigade of Guards terms of service were 4/8) during which time he could be recalled in a time of national emergency or in anticipation of a declaration of war.

He would go to the Regimental Depot (at Stirling Castle?) for 20 weeks initial training before posting to either 1st or 2nd Battalion A&SH. He has a short period of absence towards the end of his training.

At the end of his training he was posted to 1st Battalion then on Home Service - ie within U.K. .You will need to contact the Regimental Museum to discover where 1st Battalion were when your grandfather arrived with them and their subsequent movements while he served with them 1931/34 and 1937/38.

In early 1934 he has a further period of absence whilst serving. Men from the “Home Battalion” were regularly posted to 2nd Battalion that usually served overseas as garrison troops around the British Empire. 2nd A&SH were serving in India - then including present day India, Pakistan, Ceylon & Burma.

The “trooping season” to India was in the autumn months when acclimatisation was easier so he was posted overseas in September 1934 and served in India until he returned to 1st Battalion in December 1937 in anticipation of the conclusion of his 7 years colour service in April 1938 when he was posted to Section B Army reserve.

He would receive a portion of his army wage every 3 months whilst on the reserve. As part of the documentation he received on going into the reserve were pre completed travel documents - including a 5 shilling Postal Order to be cashed for travel expenses (food ) - to be used on receipt of the mobilisation telegram to facilitate his trip to the Regimental Depot by train.

His statement of services shows he was recalled to the Colours 26th August 1939 and arrived at the Regimental Depot 2nd September 1939.

He remained there until posted to the 8th TA Battalion A&SH (then at Aldershot?)in late November 1939 - likely to “stiffen” the ranks with a “sprinkling” of regular soldiers in anticipation of it going overseas with 51 Highland Division.

At the top right of the form is a wartime Ministry of Labour stamp with Employment Code letters and numbers - short hand to identify a man’s civilian occupation.

3. Army Form B200b - B

The next form in the bundle is a continuation statement of services form through to his discharge from Class Z Army Reserve in 1957.

It contains information also recorded on the B103 previously discussed that I will not repeat here except for inconsistencies or in relation to inferences that can be drawn.

I note the August 1942 entry mentioning his absence from the Adjutants Parade while at IBD in Egypt confirms my suggestion he was at Geneifa, Egypt at that time.

I’m surprised there is no mention of his postings to 1st A&SH in early 1942 or his posting to 7 A&SH in November 1942 but as previously mentioned there were 3 copies of various Army forms maintained on a man’s file but held at different locations and there are often inconsistencies between the 3 copies - including omitted entries when the 3 forms are compared.

It is clearly recorded that he was serving with a composite 7/10 A&SH at the time of his capture in Tunisia April 1943.

There is an inconsistency regarding his movement from Italy to Germany whilst a POW. There is no mention of an escape or recapture merely a transfer to Stalag 18A in May 1944 that will need a Red Cross enquiry to resolve.

The stamp below the POW entry is the note of the Army Census & his ASG mentioned above.

Details of his return to U.K. on repatriation in 1945 and details of his terminal leave and posting to Class Z Reserve in February 1946 are followed by the stamp confirming his discharge from Class Z Reserve on reaching his 45th birthday in 1957.

All demobilised men went on to Class Z as it made it easier to recall them if required. Class Z men were recalled during The Korean War and The Suez Crisis.

4. Army Form B271 - front

This is the Attestation form he would’ve completed on the day of his enlistment. He would’ve been given a copy It was part of a 4 page booklet. The contents ought to be self explanatory.

5. Army Form B268

This is the frontispiece that would be attached to his papers held at The Infantry Record Office when he went on to the Reserve in April 1938.

6. Statement of Services Form - Original? - to 2nd September 1939

I suspect this is the original P3 of his 4 page Attestation “book” mentioned below. It appears to have identical entries to the form discussed previously at 2 above although as the right hand column has officers signatures that suggests it is the original document that was updated contemporaneously with entries until to his mobilisation in September 1939.

7. Portion Military History Sheet

This form is usually at Page 4 of 4 page Attestation booklet (2 pages with details recorded on both sides of each page) but this example appears to be a cut off part loose sheet used solely in 1957 to show details of his final discharge and calculations of his service.

8. Army Form B271 - Page 2

This page records the personal description of the recruit and his formal acceptance for military service.

9. Army Form B271 Page 4 - Military History Sheet Example 1

This was the final form in the Attestation pack and was subject to regular updates during a man’s service using information gleaned from other Army forms.

There are 3 examples on the file. This one doesn’t appear to have any entries made after his return to U.K. from BEF 16th June 1940.

The entry at the top of the form regarding his movements repeats information on other Army forms mentioned previously.

The next section records that he passed for the 3rd Class Army Certificate of Education during his recruit training at Stirling in May 1931.

He went on to pass for the 2nd Class Certificate in September 1933 when he appears to have been serving in Edinburgh (Castle?).

There was also a 1st Class certificate but he doesn’t appear to have attempted that examination.

For boys who left school at 14 years of age without educational qualifications an Army Certificate of Education was a helpful thing to possess and the higher the pass level the more improved were post discharge employment opportunities.

The form then records that he qualified as a Hospital Orderly having passed an examination whilst serving at the British Military Hospital (BMH) at Rawalpindi (now Pakistan) in July 1936. I expect he would not be performing Nursing Duties - more likely current day Porter duties.

The next entry records his entitlement to 2 India General Service Medals. He earned the 1908 IGSM with the 1935 North West Frontier clasp (Mohmand Campaign?)and the replacement 1935 IGSM with Clasps NWF 1936 & 1937. There were regular Policing expeditions to address rebellious tribes on the borders of what are now Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Mohmand campaign of 1935 - Wikipedia

Waziristan campaign (1936–1939) - Wikipedia

The attached link to an academic paper will give you an overview.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA523451.pdf

The final entry records his 1933 marriage.

10. Army Form B271 Page 4 - Military History Sheet Example 2

Similar to Example One but updated with entries to 1942 - although WW2 campaign medal entries likely made 1944/45.

Most entries are duplicates of the previous version - albeit an Army clerk has rewritten the entries rather than photocopying the form as would be done nowadays.

Records departure for Middle East February 1942 and attendance at Training Courses on arrival in Egypt.

Records he was wounded 13th June 1940 - likely whilst serving with BEF.

Medal entitlement updated to include WW2 campaign medals.

Hand written undated scrawl across his marriage entry suggesting he had separated from his wife. D462 likely refers to an Army Form.

11. Army Form B271 Page 4 - Military History Sheet Example 3

A duplicate of version 2 but the top portion updated to reflect his service from 1942 to discharge from Class Z in 1957

12. Page 4 of 4 Army Reserve Transfer Booklet

Your grandfather signed Part V of this form at Aldershot in March 1938 whilst with 1st A&SH and before starting his terminal leave.

Part VI was completed in his absence by an officer at Perth Infantry Record office when the completed 4 page booklet arrived there 1st April 1938

13. Page 3 of 4 Page Army Reserve Transfer Booklet

Part II Medical clearance signed by an Army Doctor at Aldershot 10th March 1938.

Your grandfather signed Part IV at Aldershot 10th Mach 1938

14. Page 2 of 4 Page Army Reserve Transfer Booklet

The most interesting page in this booklet (Page 1 hasn’t been provided).

This page was completed in India prior to his sailing for England. It is signed by CO 2nd A&SH at Secunderabad (modern India). It notes his military achievements during his 7 years service.

The majority of the entries were also recorded in his the B108 Regular Army Discharge Book that he would be given at discharge. He would be able to use it to gain employment.

His character was recorded as Very Good. There were 7 categories - in descending order (from memory) - Exemplary, Very Good, Good, Fair, Indifferent, Bad, Very Bad. His 2 periods of absence recorded on his Statement of Services form precluded the award of an Exemplary Character.

The form specifies the Mohmand & Waziristan Campaigns he took part in during 1935 and 1936 respectively.

I note his discharge address was changed from his marital home to The Union Jack Club, London (it’s still there close to Waterloo Station) that may presage marital difficulties or be an indication that he felt his employment chances were better in London than Scotland.

15. Annual Report and Employment sheet - Misfiled

This is included in your grandfathers file in error as it refers to a Private Harper.

16. Annual Report and Employment sheet - Entries 1931 to 1938

These forms were used for men in the Regular Army. All entries are favourable apart from the Sept 1934 entry that likely lead to his posting to India to serve with 2nd A&SH - to give him a fresh start.

17. Trade & Employment Sheet

This form notes he was performing the duties of a trained Machine Gunner in 1932.

If you have any questions please just ask.

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

I honestly can’t express how grateful I am that you have taken the time to go through the papers in such detail. I am really blown away with your knowledge and attention to detail. Thank you so much. There is so much information here for me to digest and it’s definitely going to allow me get to know more about my grandads life. He died when I was only 6 years old so I didn’t get the opportunity to spend much time with him.

I hope that you won’t mind if on digesting the information you’ve given me I ask any questions that come to mind. There is definitely things that I can do to find out even more information about him as you’ve mentioned.

I know that one of my uncles has two or three of my granddads war medals. If there were more that have not yet been issued do you know if I would be able to apply for those as his grandson or would one of my uncles have to do it as they are his nearest next of kin?

Once again, thank you so much for everything you’ve done.

 

Hi Andrew,

Hopefully all the info isn’t too “mind blowing”.

Just take your time to go through it. The internet and your local library will be your best friends as you take your research further.

I’ll reply by PM re medals.

Steve

 

I have just found one of the documents you mentioned, the liberation questionnaire on Ancestry. So amazing to read, I have attached it here in case you wanted to read.

 

Excellent find Andrew. Clarifies alot. I’ll look through it in more detail tomorrow. Try and find questionnaires from the other 2 named soldiers?

Janet Dethick vitellino will be very interested and maybe able to assist further.

Steve

 

Andrew and Steve,

Sheet 4938 is a proforma explaining to ESCAPERS how to fill in the sheet giving the names of the families who helped them. This does not usually form part of a liberation report.

When I first came across this sheet a year ago it had me stumped as it clearly didn't relate to the escaper concerned. Then the penny dropped - two other ESCAPERS named Smith and Jones.....I note that the word nil, written in the same hand as the rest of the report, appears at the bottom of the sheet.

Regards,

Vitellino

 

Thanks Janet. An excellent insight. All understood - example sheets completed in error.

Ancestry will likely have copied every piece of paper provided by TNA without knowledge of the significance or otherwise of the material as we have seen with other databases they have digitised. Their indexing also leaves lot to be desired - I saw one POW taken in Norway recorded as being captured in Otto rather than Oslo!

I hope Andrew didn’t waste too much time searching Ancestry for the mysterious Smith & Jones last night…….

Having had another look at the Questionnaire this morning I can see it is dated 17th May 1945 - well before Pte Kennedy returned to U.K. about 11th June 1945. I expect MI9 personnel interviewed ex POW in Italy and the Questionnaire was completed there rather than on arrival in U.K. like the vast bulk of repatriated ex POW?

I’m assuming the relatively small number of ex POW evacuated via Italy must have passed through a Transit Camp. Have you any idea where that camp might’ve been located?

It appears from the Questionnaire that the information on the W3040 in his service papers regarding his “presumed” escape in August 1943 is another clerical error as it is not supported by Andrew’s grandfathers personal account of his POW movements.

Pte Kennedy appears to have gone directly to Austria in September 1943. My father followed the same route from PG53 Macerata but spent almost 2 months in Stalag 7A Moosburg before being sent to a Stalag 17B work camp. I expect Andrew’s enquiry with Red Cross will clarify matters even more.

Steve

 

Hi,

Funnily enough I had noticed that there were other soldiers with exactly the same page with smith and Jones on it so I presumed it was just an example page.

I have to wait till September to make a request with the Swiss Red Cross, it will be interesting to see what they have.

I also had an email back from Argyll and Sutherland Highlander museum regarding my grandad. I just asked what information they had on him and they said the following:


“”Andrew,


I was sorry to hear of your father’s passing and a great pity he was unable to visit the museum. He was rightly proud of your grandad’s service in the Regiment.


Joseph, although he ended up in captivity, he was lucky to have survived the war. Having initially enlisted in the 2nd Battalion, he was fortunate to have transferred to another Battalion by the time the war started. A large number of the 2nd Battalion were killed during the fighting in the Malaya and the majority of the rest went on to suffer years of terrible hardship in the Japanese prison camps.


You mention you have his military records already, so I am not sure how much of the information that follows is new to you.


Enlisted 9/4/1931. Was a civil servant. Posted to A company 2nd Battalion No.1 Platoon. In B company when his 1st good conduct badge is restored 4/3/1936. Unfortunately, there is no record of what he did to lose it in the first place. 1936 in B company No.8 platoon. No.15 section. Then awarded the Indian General Service Medal with the clasp Northwest Frontier 1936-37. Must have been sent back to the UK before the Battalion moved to Singapore in 1939 as not recorded as travelling with the Battalion then.


Serving in the 7th Battalion when he was captured. The museum does not hold personnel service records, so I cannot say whether he served with the Battalion in France in 1940. If you have his papers then it should list the theatres of war he served in. He may have served at El Alamein, Mersa Brega, Buerat, Wadi Moussa, Wadi Hachana and Wadi Akarit ( a main battle for the Battalion).


Noted as captured at Gabes Gap on the 2nd of April 1943. After three days rest the battalion moved near the Oasis de Usseps. One party left the the main part of the battalion failed to turn off the main road at the correct place and ran into enemy lines. An attempt was made to turn the trucks but the enemy mortar and machine gun fire was so intense that the order “every man for himself” was given. Only three soldiers managed to avoid being captured. The remainder, two officers and 20 other ranks were taken prisoner which is likely to have included Joseph as no other action is recorded on that day.


Held prisoner in camps at Sfax 3/4/1943 to 11/4/1943, then inTunis 12/4/1943 to 22/4/1943, then Capua, Italy 26/4/1943 to 18/9/1943, Spittal Austria 23/9/1943 to 3/10/1943, then stalag 18A. At Burbaum 15/4/1943 to feb 1945 doing farm work and lastly Oldack feb 1945 to 8/5/1945 doing railway work.


Interrogated by a German Officer at Tunis, he tried to get information by pretending to know more that I knew about various units.


Suffered from Lumbago for 8 days after sleeping on the open ground with no cover or blankets. Received treatment from a British Medical Officer, in Italy.


Joseph notes: I made one attempt to escape when the Germans were taking us from Italy. I dodged through a doorway while passing through a town in Italy. An Italian woman who was in the yard gave me away. I was kicked back onto the road.


Regards

Rod Mackenzie

The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders Museum””

A lot of this information is included in the Liberation Questionnaire.

 

Steve,

All the POWs present in Italy at the end of the war that I have come across to date were escapers who reported in to the nearest Allied military authorities and were interviewed by MI9.

The proforma I referred to was in the MI9 interview file relating to one such escaper. After being interviewed he was sent to Transit camp no.2 in Naples to await repatriation, as were all the others I have documentary evidence for.

I have not come across any POW sent from Austria to Italy for repatriation.

Another point bothers me. Pte Kennedy says he escaped after the Germans took over from the Italians and was 'kicked back into the ranks'. Presumably this escape took place whilst he was being marched to the station. That date was 18 September. However, his service record says he escaped on 14 August.

Edited to correct dates
Janet

 

Thanks Janet.

Pte Kennedy was likely sent on to that camp on his arrival in Italy having been passed back down the line through 1st Army in Klagenfurt, Carinthia in mid May 1945. Mention of him being in southern Italy in his service file by June 1945 would cover Naples area.

Steve

 

That figures. I'll see what I can find relating to others who were held in Spittal.

Nothing obvious on line.