2nd Bat Coldstreams

Hi, this is my first post in the forum. My Name's adam and I'm a researcher investigating my Grandfathers Battalion in Italy During WW2.

Although not a historical researcher by trade, I am a professional researcher, and I've taken in unto myself to write a historical book on the 2nd Coldstreams. Its not an easy task, i'm starting from scratch. The guards were in the 1st Bde (guards) but this was shifted around so much, they're a hard unit to follow. To make matters worse, the 3rd Coldstreams were integrated into the 2nd Bat to form the new 2nd Bat in the latter stages of the conflicts... a lot of sources seem to list the 3rd Bat when they really mean the 2nd.

As a researcher I'm looking for very accurate information to write this book. I was wondering if anyone had any advice to tracing the exact steps of the Battallion, i'm looking for:

a) Armies, Divisions and Bde's the unit served under (as well as dates)

b) But more crucially, where precisely where the Bat was based in its route up italy, so I can trace its path. I've already booked time off later this year to follow up what I find out. I'll keep the board updated with my personal story into the investigation as I go on.

c) I'm also after any photographs of the Bat that people might have (on the offchance they the families won't mind them being published).

Does anyone know how/where I can accurately find out this information? any help would really be appreciated. I'll fully credit anyone who can help me, and will be incredibly greatfull!

 

Hi Adam - and welcome. Have you looked at the unit's War Diaries in the National Archives?

There is also a history of the 56th (London) Division in WW2 published by IWM in the 1990s.

Plus the regimental history published in the 50s.

 

This is the title page of the 56th Div history:

 

You might also find Geoff's search engine of use for tracing the dead of the battalion:

Geoff's 1939-47 Search Engine

 

Hi, thanks for that... that's all brilliant. Many thanks for scanning all of those documents! This is a really great start.

(BTW Appologies If I cover something twice, I'm fighting a battle on two fronts in two forums. But i'm happier this way).

I happen to be very lucky in that I already own a rare copy of Quilters: No dishonourable name, which, is what started my investigation into my grandfather's history. It has some rare maps inside, particularally of the cassino sector, however it's diaries (which make up the most of the book) are from officers points of view, and are too disjointed to follow accurately (in terms of dates and locations).

Regarding the records office, I'm sad to say that may be a dead end. One of the first things I did when I thought about this project was send off for his war record, however it was only useful for times of leave, which I have in his personal documentation. There was no mention as to what company he was in, or the times he was in them. I still live in hope that maybe they chose a selction of information to send me, and still have this, but at six months turn around per question, I'm not sure its too enconmical to find out. If anyone knows if they have this sort of info, please let me know.

I'm going to check the history of the 56th Div this week when I can get into london, according to the pages published earlier on this thread they were seperated from the 1st Bde late on (my records say they were relieved by the Welsh Guards at this point) and moved to the 56th london. But as of the moment, I don't know if they were put in a particular Bde or left as a independent unit.

Regarding the history of the Coldstream (<-note plural), it's good, and contains some great starting points but not enough detail. I'm going to have to dig a bit deeper yet!

regards,

adam

 

Oh just another thing, it's not Coldstreams , they like to be known as
The Coldstream.
I know ex-Grenadiers referred to them as Sheepsh*ggers.

2 CG served with 6th Armoured Division.


Thanks, from another board, I have some of the divisions the 2nd coldstream served with now:

1st Infantry 9.39-6.41
Indep't 6.41-5.42
78th Infantry 5.42-3.43

Italy:

6th Armd 3.43-5.44
Indep't 5.44-8.45.

And I've just found out they were with the 56th London division at the end of the war. Which makes sense from some of the photographs I have.

But I need to fill the independent bit in historically, as I think they could have been posted to a few different divisions during this time. Basically I need to pay a visit to the national archives to have a look at the war diaries, can anyone advise me as to how this works?

*edit* DBF, that's amazing thank you!

 

I happen to be very lucky in that I already own a rare copy of Quilters: No dishonourable name, which, is what started my investigation into my grandfather's history. It has some rare maps inside, particularally of the cassino sector, however it's diaries (which make up the most of the book) are from officers points of view, and are too disjointed to follow accurately (in terms of dates and locations).



What's the full reference for that book? It's one I don't know.

 

What's the full reference for that book? It's one I don't know.

Quilter, D.C. “No Dishonorable Name”: The 2nd and 3rd Battalions Coldstream Guards in France, North Africa and Italy, 1939-1946. London, England: W. Clowes, 1947.

Its pretty rare, although the imperial war museum has a copy.

 

Thanks (and thanks to Diane for the heads up on it, too) - I've found a couple of copies for sale. One to add to the shopping list.

 

Not sure where those dates come from cos I'm loking at my Gren Gds history and it has on page 419 the comment for March 1944,

The main object of the move to Calvisi had been the reincorporation of the 1st Guards Brigade into the 6th Armoured Division.

Flicking through the history I can't see any mention of them leaving 6th Armd Div.
EDIT: Ah , they'd become seperate from 6th Armd Div after the end of the Tunisian campaign.
From March 44 onwards they were part od 6 Armd Div.

This is the core of my problem: the 1st Bde moved around so much, plus it was independent on more then one occasion. I know for instance the bde was in the 78th div for a while in tunisia, and a diary I read mentions being part of them again in italy). I'm going to have to check the war diaries and see if it mentions if they were specifically attached to any other div whilst independent, or were part of a div that I'm not hearing about. I'm going to have to double check this for accuracy's sake.