2nd Bat East Yorkshire Regiment - Dunkirk

Hi

Wonder if anyone can help me?

My Grandad died in Dunkirik in 1940 and my GrandMother left me all of his papers that were left.

His original conscription papers in 1926, his Army Certificates and the letter informing my GrandMother of his death:

"Presumed killed in Action" between June 1st 1940 and June 2nd 1940.

My Grandad was a Drummer in the military band and i find myself trying to find some more information about where he possibly may of died (as i wish to visit the region this summer"

His details are here:

CWGC :: Casualty Details

My mother has no pictures of her Dad (and she is now nearly 75) and i wondered if anyone knew what happened to the 2nd Battalion of the East Yorks Regiment in Dunkirk - do any military photographs exist? - what Medals should he have received as my GrandMother never received anything.

There was alot of family speculation about him being on a train back to Dunkirk and the train was blown up - but i think this was all just speculation. Also, speculation as to what his role was within the Infantry Division - someone mentioned that as he was a Drummer - it was likely that his duties would have involved body clearing - again, speculation?

The only memory my Mother has of her Dad - is whilst at the dining table, her Dad walked into the house and put his rifle behind the door. This was when she was four years old.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

The only other info i have is by way of his Army Certificates. His first was when he was stationed at Catterick in Yorkshire - he then took his 2nd Class in English, Maths and Map Reading in Aldershot. BTW This is when he met my late GrandMother (she lived in Guildford next to the Dennis Factory (where they made tanks at this time?)

Incidentally, what should i search for on the National Archive website? Would that tell me the whereabouts of his Battalion? (when he was sent to France with the BEF, where his unit was on June 1st,1940)

Also, I'm getting confused - 2nd Battalion was part of the 3rd Infantry Division - how does this all work?

 

Hi,

Some things which may help.

Info about checking for medals:
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/


From Kew/TNA catalogue:
2 East Yorks War Diary, 1939 Sept.-1940 June
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=16707&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2CEAST%2CYORKSHIRE&accessmethod=0

BEF - enquiries to escaped British prisoners of war about missing personnel
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=8777980&CATLN=6&Highlight=,MISSING,PERSONNEL&FullDetails=False
Not so sure about the above, ADM199 is the man to check with about relevance..

Best of luck,
D

Thanks D

I've written to the Medals Office this week - as we've never had these and by the looks of it he was entitled to several. They'd be nice to have in his Honour.

After viewing several maps of activity on June 1st 1940 here on the forum - i'm confused at how the Battalion was made up. Grandad was in the 2nd Battalion (how many men would have been in this?) - also, would there have been sub sets of this 2nd Batallion? such as X Company? and how does this fit with the Infantry Divisions as detailed within the BEF?

I assume his whereabouts would have been roughly documented by the War Office? Will the National Archive report tell me this? For instance - did he make it to the beach and was blown up or did he fall at a separate battale i.e near the Canal?

 

Thanks D

I've written to the Medals Office this week - as we've never had these and by the looks of it he was entitled to several. They'd be nice to have in his Honour.

After viewing several maps of activity on June 1st 1940 here on the forum - i'm confused at how the Battalion was made up. Grandad was in the 2nd Battalion (how many men would have been in this?) - also, would there have been sub sets of this 2nd Batallion? such as X Company? and how does this fit with the Infantry Divisions as detailed within the BEF?

I assume his whereabouts would have been roughly documented by the War Office? Will the National Archive report tell me this? For instance - did he make it to the beach and was blown up or did he fall at a separate battale i.e near the Canal?

Interestingly my GrandMother didn't receive the document informing her of him "Presumed killed in Action" until June 1942.

 

Hello Coulter. Plenty of avenues of research here. 2nd east Yorks were in 8th Infantry Brigade which formed part of 3rd Infantry Division commanded by a certain Major General Montgomery. As such, the division's activities at least are fairly well documented although I haven't yet found a reference to the battalion around 1st / 2nd June. As far as I know, the division got out pretty much intact.

The most likely cause of his unconfirmed death at that late stage was probably the loss of an evacuating ship.

It is an oversimplification but an Infantry division generally had three brigades made up of each three battalions of 800 - 900 men.

 

Hello Coulter. Plenty of avenues of research here. 2nd east Yorks were in 8th Infantry Brigade which formed part of 3rd Infantry Division commanded by a certain Major General Montgomery. As such, the division's activities at least are fairly well documented although I haven't yet found a reference to the battalion around 1st / 2nd June. As far as I know, the division got out pretty much intact.

The most likely cause of his unconfirmed death at that late stage was probably the loss of an evacuating ship.

It is an oversimplification but an Infantry division generally had three brigades made up of each three battalions of 800 - 900 men.

Thanks Rich

That helps - putting all of the jigsaw together.

Just really trying to find out if he made it back to the beaches or otherwise - just his whereabouts really and why his Bn hadn't already left by June 1st. Also, there must be some Regimental photo's dating back - i'd really like to see a picture of him and also what he did within the Bn.

Talked to my Mum tonight and quite interesting.....

He joined up in 1926 - did 12 years and then became a reservist. He had married my Nan, they lived in Guildford and he worked at the Dennis factory. Upon war breaking out he was called up immediately and went away "for a while". Mum remembers him coming home for a weekend and then upon his return - never saw him again. Apparently he befriended a French family at some point and sent a picture of them to my Nan - nothing was then heard of him until the letter from the MOD in 1942

Love to know his whereabouts from Sept 1939 to Jun 1940

 

The 2nd Battalion,were not long back from Palestine and were stationed in Plymouth When orders came to mobilise on September 1st 1939 they were equipped and ready, 6 days later as part of 3rd Infantry Division (8th Brigade) they moved to Bridport in Dorset in preparation for their move to France.
When they arrived in France they occupied part of the maginot line 8miles from Lille near the river Margue here they spent the winter digging trenches and fortifying their positions .The strategy planned to counter any German thrust into Belgium at the time was to move the British Expeditionary Force forward from its 'Gort Line' to positions in Belgium, behind the River Dyle.On 10th May when the Germans bypassed the Maginot Line the 2nd East Yorks found themselves moved to an area near the Belgium town of Louvain where they were ordered to dig in. Following the collapse of the line the whole 3rd Division fell back reportedly in good order to the beaches at La Panne.
…..The 2nd Middx Regt was also with them on the beach at La Panne which was heavily shelled as the troops waited to embark.
The 2nd East Yorks suffered some 80 casualties during this time but finally embarked, with all their arms,and in an orderly fashion still under the strict control of their officers. They were one of the last Battalions to leave France.
Regards
Verrieres

I believe Lt. Gen Sir Brian Horrocks recounted the action at La Panne in one of his books but I cannot recall which one this was.

 

The 2nd Battalion,were not long back from Palestine and were stationed in Plymouth When orders came to mobilise on September 1st 1939 they were equipped and ready, 6 days later as part of 3rd Infantry Division (8th Brigade) they moved to Bridport in Dorset in preparation for their move to France.
When they arrived in France they occupied part of the maginot line 8miles from Lille near the river Margue here they spent the winter digging trenches and fortifying their positions .The strategy planned to counter any German thrust into Belgium at the time was to move the British Expeditionary Force forward from its 'Gort Line' to positions in Belgium, behind the River Dyle.On 10th May when the Germans bypassed the Maginot Line the 2nd East Yorks found themselves moved to an area near the Belgium town of Louvain where they were ordered to dig in. Following the collapse of the line the whole 3rd Division fell back reportedly in good order to the beaches at La Panne.
…..The 2nd Middx Regt was also with them on the beach at La Panne which was heavily shelled as the troops waited to embark.
The 2nd East Yorks suffered some 80 casualties during this time but finally embarked, with all their arms,and in an orderly fashion still under the strict control of their officers. They were one of the last Battalions to leave France.
Regards
Verrieres

I believe Lt. Gen Sir Brian Horrocks recounted the action at La Panne in one of his books but I cannot recall which one this was.

That's fantastic information - Thankyou

One thing puzzles me though - if he did make it make to La Panne and most of his colleagues made it back to the UK - why would he have "presumed killed in action". Is it because a body was not available to identify? Would his colleagues have been asked upon their return to the UK about missing personnel?

Regards

PS I know this is a real longshot but is there a Veterans Association for his Battallion - be interesting to know if there's any survivors still living

 

I don`t know if this helps but try and visit
East Yorkshire Regiment Living History Group
The group are in touch with veterans from the regiment they may be able to help.Your grandfather was never identified unfortunately he may be buried as an unknown but commemorated on the Dunkirk memorial,It may be that your grandmothers confirmation of his death came later because of the chance that he may have been a prisoner of war,she would have received a missing notice at the time...speculation but possibly a fair explaination?
Regards
Verrieres

 

The fact that he was in France near Lille can certainly be verified as he sent a picture home to my Nan - of a French couple? with a young child (about 10 yrs old)

The reason i questionmark a French couple is that on the back of the photograph is written "Christmas" with Will and Myrtle 1939 - and "Will and Myrtle" don't strike me as the most French of names

 

Two developments - firstly, National Archives have sent me the full report on the 2 Bn East Yorkshire Regiment and the war diary from 20th May through to June 2nd.

What amazing reading!!

It's quite clear from this report my Grandad was either killed at Noordschote (Yser Canal) as on May 31st, B Company was taking very heavy mortar and shell fire or on the beach at La Panne.

Also, we found some photo's in a box in the loft showing the Military Band he was in (as a drummer) - any ideas as to what Band he may have been in?, him and his best friend with a French family on Christmas day in France 1939 and some photo's of his unit at Catterick

 

This may be of interest Coulter, as it is a 2nd EY story, and covers the 1st - 2nd June. Given that he landed back in Ramsgate on the 2nd the loss during the evacuation seems most plausible.

BBC - WW2 People's War - Sid's Dunkirk story

Also Geoffs Search Engine, shows 2 other 2nd EY listed on the Dunkirk Memorial all with a date of death of 01/06/40 to 02/02/40

CWGC :: Casualty Details
CWGC :: Casualty Details

 

This may be of interest Coulter, as it is a 2nd EY story, and covers the 1st - 2nd June. Given that he landed back in Ramsgate on the 2nd the loss during the evacuation seems most plausible.



I think you're right Phil - certainly the most probable is that he lost his life on the beach at La Panne

 

Owen

I think this was taken at Catterick in approx 1928

Arrow marks my Grandad

He joined up in 1926 and was to serve 7 years and a five year reserve IIRC. He was then called up as WW2 broke out

 

He lived in Guildford, was called up and went straight to Bridport - maybe thats at Bridport before leaving for France?