2nd Battalion York and Lancs - before Burma

My father joined the 2nd Battalion York and Lancs in January 1940. I'm researching his path through the war. I know he was in Egypt, Crete, Syria, and Tobruk. He missed the boat to Burma in 1942 because he was in hospital (Alexandria?) with diptheria, so he was transferred and ended the war in Italy. I have his service records and his personal stories to work with, and Wikipedia has a decent page on the battalion's overall movement, but I'd like more detail. Does anyone have any war diaries for this battalion from 1940-42?

 

I have looked around the forum using "2nd Battalion York and Lancaster" + "ww2talk.com" (the forum's own search function is very simple) and found one thread on that mentions them in Greece: Greece & Crete 1941

A slight change in the search using & instead of and produces this: 2nd Battalion, York & Lancaster Regiment - War Diaries for 1942 to 1944 attached It has war diaries for May to December 1942.

Using the tag for them produces a lot more: york and lancaster regiment - war diaries | WW2Talk On a scan most appear to refer to the 6th Y&L, the Hallamshires. So their value depends on which unit he transferred to!

Someone who knows more hopefully will come along!

 

Thanks. Yes, I've looked around the site and found nothing so far. Hopefully there are more diaries out there. The National Archives suggested I contact the Y&L museum for regimental records, but they have never responded. Does the museum still exist?

 

Yes there is a museum @ Rotherham, which has the museum within, but no separate website and under the auspices of the local council. I have not had any luck with the few museums I have contacted - all during and just after Covid. Most I expect rely on volunteer researchers. If you are not near Rotherham, perhaps someone here is. Or just look elsewhere!

 

Whilst I have your attention, would you happen to know what the labels 2/5 and 2/10 mean beside G.H. (general hospitals)? Are these hospital locations and is there a list anywhere?

 

2 Y&L were at Tobruk during the final stage of the siege and the breakout.

A bit of info here: 25/26 November 41–who attacked strongpoint 903?

All the best

Andreas

 

Glenn,

You are in luck regarding military hospitals. See: Hospitals WW2 - Scarlet Finders The only source I have found and used in my research. None have the prefix / labels 2/5 & 2/10. Could those labels be dates?

 

Thanks, I've seen that hospital list. As you say, no mention of the numbers concerned though. I don't think they are dates, as they appear sequentially on his B103 form as follows:

Admitted 2/5 G.H. (to 'X' II list) 22.9.40
Transferred 2/10 G.H. 23.9.40
Discharged 2/10 G.H. (off 'X' II list) 16.10.40

He was shipped out of England on 4th August and arrived in Egypt on the 19th (long voyage round Cape?), so these would have been Egyptian hospitals. My guess is the numbers refer to locations or wards.

 

If he got to Egypt in 15 days there's no way he went round the Cape.

2/5 G.H and 2/10 G.H. are almost certainly 2/5 and 2/10 [Australian and British?] General Hospitals.

See reference here: Establishing Helwan Hospital | NZETC and here: Embroidered Nazi Badge : Private J G Kettle, 2/5 Australian General Hospital

All the best

Andreas

 

Glenn,

You state:

Using, like you Wiki for the 2nd Y&L the battalion was already in the Middle east, so he would have been a reinforcement. See: 2nd Battalion, York and Lancaster Regiment - Wikipedia

By that time of the war troopships could not move through the Mediterranean, movement was either by fast ship, such as the Y&L moving to Crete on a cruiser and from memory overnight journeys to Tobruk, also mentioned.

It might be worth checking the records you have on this voyage. I understand that an individual's service record was manually maintained and the writing can be hard to discern. Others will know about convoys, with troops, moving to the Middle East via the Cape to Suez; notably the WS series of convoys, I cannot recall when they happened.

Only VIPs were flown through the Mediterranean and the trans-Africa air route may not have been operational in late 1940.

 

Apologies, I have mistyped and misled you.

The entries on his record are stamped:

EMBARKED and POSTED Pte 4 8 40
Disembarked Egypt (with handwritten entry Pte 19.9.40)

August 4th to SEPTEMBER 19th. That's a journey of six weeks. This, combined with the knowledge that the Mediterranean was a bit of a death trap for troop ships at this point in the war, is why I think he went round the Cape.

I suspect you are correct in the reference to the 2/5 GH being an Australian hospital. There is much detail about them here:

https://www.2-5agh.org

There is no mention of its whereabouts in September 1940, though it appears to have been in Palestine in October 1940 and then overrun in Greece in April 1941.

Can't find anything on a reference to a 2/10 British GH though.There was a 2/10 Australian GH, but it appears to have been based in Malaya.

 

I did look earlier for items on 2/10 and then stopped., Started again and found (not in priority order):

There was an Australian and a British hospital with the title 2/10.

1)

From: RAMC: Royal Army Medical Corps WW1

2) On 29/3/1940:

From: War Diary of D Battery, Royal Horse Artillery 1940

3) When war came at last, on 10 June (1940), he was certainly on the spot. About this time, the CO of No 112 (Fighter) Squadron (S/Ldr DM Somerville 32113, later A/Cdr Somerville OBE) suffered burns to his face and hands when his Gloster Gladiator caught fire in the course of an army co-operation exercise near Heliopolis on the northern outskirts of Cairo. Somerville baled out and was quickly rescued to be admitted to 2/10 General Hospital, Helmieh, in Cairo.
From: ARG Bax

4)

From: Norman Cameron

5) Convoy detail and hospital:

From: https://coleraine-battery.tripod.com/page19086.htm

 

Just to add to the confusion there was a 2/5 Casualty Clearing Station, originally in Palestine, then Egypt.

 

Lots of titbits all over the web, thanks. Though sometimes I feel like I'm chasing my own tail

Still trying to get a copy of the Y&L war diaries. Hopefully there will be more in there.

 

Glenn,

You will find your timeline can confuse and frustrate. Just make sure you save each edition separately and keep track of the sources used.

I am beginning to wonder if the pre-war medical arrangements, with major hospitals, entitled general hospitals, do not follow the Scarlet Finders information. Nor the impact of a war, adding to the demands and scale of medical provision. There was a casualty clearing station (CCS) and a hospital with the 2/5 prefix. Ho, hum time to rest now.

 

Yes, I've noticed the dates are not always in order. Things got pretty muddled around the time of the Battle of Crete that's for sure. And between my dad's stories, what I remember of his stories, and what the war office actually recorded, I'm sure there are quite a few discrepancies! The war diaries should help.

If you have another moment though, could you take a look at this uploaded section of his B103 and see what you think?

I know the 2nd battalion Y&L was moved to Syria on July 10th. Dad said he was there in June with the Australians. Maybe his memory was wrong or maybe he was seconded as a driver by another regt.

Either way, he's recorded as moved overland on the 10th July.

Then there's a stamp by the MEF census for 6th September that is annotated Syria.

This is followed by an out of sequence entry by the battalion stating he was admitted to 1/3 F.H. (Field hospital?) in Syria on 21st August. I don't understand the handwritten line that follows (PAT 2/13, A.F. AMB). Could be Australian Force Ambulance?

Then there's another MEF census stamp for 6th September. Looks like it's annotated ME for Middle East.

How am I doing so far?

 

The British & Allied military forces in the Middle East, at various times were MEF, CMF, BNAF and onwards. For obvious reasons as the war went on North Africa became the main battleground, with places like Lebanon-Syria after: Syria–Lebanon campaign - Wikipedia 8 June – 14 July 1941 becoming "backwaters", used for recovery, training and internal security. An Australians brigade fought in this campaign, so the 2nd Y&L could have fought alongside them: 21st Brigade (Australia) - Wikipedia

Their hospital was:

From: Biography - George Brumfitt Maitland - Australian Dictionary of Biography

On 3/4/1941 the 2/5 Australian General Hospital (AGH) was in Palestine: Group portrait of officers of the 2/5 Australian General Hospital (AGH). Identified, left to ...

I cannot readily identify 1/3 F.H. (Field hospital?).

Just found this and only glanced at the content: Who was there? a complete list. Great reference tool.

 

Does that read 173 field hospital, not 1/3 ?

 

Possibly 173. Thought what looks like a 7 might have been a mis-stroked / though, given that most units are annotated # / #. Any ideas as to what PAT 2/13 might stand for?

 

Hi.
The Aussies were definitely there. The 21st and 25th Brigades. The 2/3 and 2/2 Battalions led the way into Damascus.
My grandad was in the 1st Beds and Herts, they replaced the Welch Regiment who were all killed or captured on Crete. So the re-jigged 14th Infantry Brigade was 1st Beds and Herts, 2nd Y and L and 2nd Black Watch.

Alex