3 RTR B Squadron

Lots of the chaps in 3RTR did exactly that. Apart from Service Records there is no other definitive way to best of my knowledge.

 

That would be the incident that Adam posted a pic of, over in the album 39-45 on Facebook with caption ‘Sid Woolf, Oploo, Holland. 17pdr Firefly hit into Panthers engine bay’!

 

Mmmm, not sure, I remember Grandad saying that they were advancing through trees, and that they didn't get to see the German tank until it was alongside them....it was their tank's quicker traverse that saved them! That photo doesn't fit the scene, no trees and no second tank. I've just remembered him mentioning that the shot went through the turret ring, he told me that they were told to aim specifically there. It is, of course, totally possible that the incident was 'jazzed up' a bit, to impress me, but he was never the type to exaggerate. That's not to say that he may have mixed up details, events, but he seemed quite sure about it. What makes me think he wasn't in a Firefly is the fact that the Commander ordered 'AP', and Fireflies didn't use HE, I think.
I always associated the incident with a King Tiger, as that was the model he looked at, but I guess it could have been a MK IV special, their guns must have also appeared intimidating if you were accustomed to just seeing a Sherman's 75mm.
Also, it may have taken place before he joined 3RTR, while he was with 24 Lancers. I'd have thought by the time they'd disbanded and been sent their various ways, they'd have seen a few of the long-barrel German guns. I remember clearly him saying how they'd wished they hadn't gone back to look, once they saw the gun!
I expect they had this expression:

"Get back in my tank?? You gotta be kidding!"
Thinking about it, it could be that he incorporated some of the F01 Tiger incident into his story...the fact that a lot of B Squadron tankies went to see it..... I don't know....

 

Conflation can certainly be an issue and we all suffer from it to a certain extent years after the events - it's how our brains work. Use of the Royal We can also lead to confusion....'we' being the British Army rather than 'we' being, say, 'our tank'. That can make proper validation of research very difficult.

 

I've got a mate who's dad was in C Sqn and he was the driver of the lead tank into the village of Husum (25 Kms NW of Hannover), the tank was taken out by the Volksturm firing numerous Panzerfausts at it! Sadly in the action the Comdr Sgt Alan Duff, LCpl John Nation and Tpr Charles Ellershaw were killed. My mates dad stayed inside the tank, shitting himself and smoking daring not to bail out as the tank was still being fired at. This action took place on or around the 8th Apr 45.

Does anyone know of a photo of Ellershaw? Just re-reading the incident, it does have some elements that could link it to what my grandmother told me about Charlie's death, the "bazooka" attack, etc...

 

Frank
I forget who posted that message originally and where - my take on WW2Talk and Facebook are getting conflated (see what I did there? ). Possibly that person might have access to more information or hopefully photographs.

 

It was Andy...for some reason it didn't quote correctly...having looked at Andy's album page on FB, there's a Tim Payne, whose father was C Squadron, who may have some info..

 

l know Tim has visited the graves of his Dad’s crew, they reside in the CWCG cemetery in Hannover.




A post from Gareth Davies:-

On 8 April 1945:

3 RTR moved to Hussum and then to Linsburg. They lost 3 men; Tpr Ellershaw, LCpl Nation, & LSjt Duff. Nation's death was recorded by the padre: “John was killed as he was attending to a wounded infantry lad. Our tanks were attacking a village in support of our infantry, the opposition was pretty stiff and there was a lot of wounded amongst the infantry. All our ambulances were busy and while John and another lad were binding up a badly wounded lad a sniper got him.” Allan Duff was a junior chess champion; "Essex Chess's most remarkably talented junior player, taking the British U18 title on three consecutive occasions, in 1937, 1938 and 1939."

 

I mention this incident in my book but the destruction of Alan Duff's Comet occurred in the forest which dominated the road from Rehburg to Husum, rather than in Husum itself. Also the troops who destroyed the tank were very unlikely to have been Volkssturm and far more likely to have been the young soldiers of either the Stamm Kompanie or 5. Kompanie of
SS-A.u.E.Btl.12 ‘HJ’.

 

I'm clutching at straws!!!! Right now, at the top of my 'Grandad-to-do list' is a) ID Charlie, b) ID Alex (of CESTUS fame) and c) ID the rest of CHERUB crew... so anyone called Charles/Charlie/Chuck, etc, gets the magnifying glass treatment! I was hoping that Len could have given me a few names, but I bet he's up to his neck with requests, etc... and still no reply from Bovington re. CESTUS, maybe the archive is still closed.
PS, any news on the new publishing date of the book?

 

I came across the following pics last night in 11th Armd Div group on ‘Facebook’. The first one was taken on the 22nd Mar 1944, when the 3rd were based in Bridlington. Over on the right, with his back to us and stood to attention is the CO Lt Col David Silvertop and the GOC 11th Armd Div Maj Gen ‘Pip’ Roberts, out of shot is the King! While to their left the Adj Capt ‘Jock’ Balharrie is chatting with the Queen Mother and Princess Elizabeth.

 

Yes, I saw it earlier...... trying to figure out what they're talking about.... I didn't realise bogies could be so fascinating, unless he's explaining where they hide their gin........or a korgi's lubricating the track!

 

Here we see a Sherman Firefly T148750 with two crewman wearing the RTR capbadge. l can’t see any Div insignia so I’m not certain whether it is definitely a tank belonging to the 3rd. That is until l noticed the ser no of the tank in the second pic and the Infantry are clearly wearing the 11th Armd Div flash! As for the date, post Antwerp liberation judging by all the graffiti that has been scrawled on both sides!

 

Came across this whilst perusing IWM archive, it says 11th Armoured, but checking dates and location, I reckon it's 3RTR....
SOLDIERS OF THE KING'S SHROPSHIRE LIGHT INFANTRY AND COMET TANKS OF 29TH ARMOURED BRIGADE ADVANCE NORTH OF BAD REHBURG, GERMANY [Allocated Title]

 

Sadly not. I think it unlikely to be in 2020. Hoping for early next year.

 

Assuming the caption is correct, the clip shows infantry from B Coy 4 KSLI and C Sqn 3 RTR prior to their advance northwards into the forest I mentioned in #449.

 

This Firefly obviously caught the camera's eye as the same T148750 appears in both S54's posts.

 

Perhaps something along the lines..."Lillibet dear - have you ever seen such a funny set of early VVSS suspension on a Sherman?"

 

l’ve done some digging, well asked a few questions to be exact and someone answered! Hilsea Bks are in Viersen and they weren’t built until the fifties, the camp that the 3rd used in Suchteln was located in and around the Provincial Healing Institute:-




HQ 21st Army Group and the HQ 2nd TAF had used the same place as well during the advance through Germany!