39 Company, AMPC - St Nazaire 1940

Could anyone help me with the activities of 39 Coy Aux Military Pioneer Corps just prior to their evacuation in 1940? I mention St Nazaire since they are listed as being part of the AMPC companies that embarked aboard the ill-fated ship Lancastria. However, it might well be that other smaller units and individuals within that Company did not leave from there and might have well left France at other ports.
Can anyone help with their entry from the book "A War History of the Royal Pioneer Corps 1939-1945"? If any info is out there, it'll be there I'm sure!
I'm researching a man who was with this Company and might well have been on the Lancastria and survived. However, his WW2 papers state that he left France on the 21st June, reaching UK on 22nd June.This was some five days after the sinking of the Lancastria, so I am guessing that he might have spent some time recovering as apparently there was a hospital run by Nuns at St Nazaire to which some survivors were taken. All were eventually evacuated on the 21st. The only ships that left that port this late were HMS's Griffin, Imogen, Punjabi and Witch. HMS Punjabi was carrying 30 British and 14 "others". Of these men, 18 were stretcher cases.
Any pointers much appreciated!
Royston

 

Hello Royston,

This may possibly hold something within for you. You know what (and who) you are looking for, there could be clues/names within that will help (a slim chance but you never know) and the file holds more than a regular commendation usually does.

Courtesy of TNA Kew, pdf attached below.

Good luck with your search.

Kind regards, always,

Jim.

P.S. War Diary for 39 Company Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps covering Sept '39 to April '40 is held at TNA too but has not been digitised and is not available to download, but again, there may be information within that might help, even though it covers a prior time period.

 

Evening Royston,

You maybe interested in the following link; the individual offers a search service too.

Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps Order of Battle France May 1940 | Researching the Lives and Records of WW2 Soldiers

Also, you should get in touch with the Royal Logistic Corps museum who hold Pioneer Records on their website: Search RPC War Diaries - RLC Digital Archive

Regards

Bruneval

 

Hi Royston,
The bulk of the evacuations during this Operation Aerial were carried out by merchant ships. That said the last of these vessels sailed from St Nazaire on the 18th. As you say the last warship sailed on the 21st., this was also the last port where significant numbers were saved by warships.The next port to be used was La Pallice, though by now the bulk of the troops were Polish. When I have time I will go through my table of ships involved in that evacuation and the naval record.
Regards,
Roy

 

Royston,

Here is a bit more, as you can see the situation was chaotic:

By 1752 on 17 June troops from St Nazaire had been evacuated and the town was presumed to be in enemy hands. Ettrick was told not to proceed there, but on 19 June at 0012 the Oracle signalled that she had sailed with rescued merchant crews, a few soldiers and refugees, 250 in all, and that the Germans were close to St Nazaire. The Trelawny had been heavily bombed, suffering slight damage; the Floristan was also bombed and had engine room damage.

Air attacks continued at St Nazaire. At 1851 the Commander in Chief, Western Approaches, informed the Senior Naval Officers at Brest and St Nazaire, and all ships in Western Approaches, of the decision to withdraw the whole of the British Expeditionary Force immediately, and detailed the vessels that would be arriving at the various ports. The Mackay was informed that they were to be embarked on any ship for the U.K.[ii]

The work went on. Writing about another Holt ship, the Glenaffric, Captain Walter Harrison, at St Nazaire, a Brigadier Cole said:

On an ebb tide and without pilot or tugs the ship was skilfully and safely brought onto the quay, where the embarkation of the remaining troops was quickly carried out and with 4,000 rescued soldiers aboard she sailed after a trying night … the ship was brought out of harbour under the most adverse conditions and, the convoy having already departed, the Master proceeded unescorted to a British port. Our men pay glowing tribute to the cheerful manner and quiet confidence displayed' … (he goes on to name the senior ship’s officers).[iii]

The Plymouth Journal records the Glenaffric as being in convoy OLIVE when it sailed from the Loire on 17 June? A troop convoy of the Royal Ulstermen, City of Lancaster, Beltoy, Maurice Rose, Glanlea (Glenlea?), Harpathian, Glendenning, Pollux, Lechistan sailed at 1100. Still other ships were reported elsewhere, with their passenger numbers: the Royal Ulstermen 2,800; Ulster Prince 2,800; Floristan 2,000; Baharistan 2,000; Clan MacPherson (Ferguson?) 2,000; Dundrum Castle 2,000; David Livingstone 2,000; Fabian 2,000; City of Mobile 2,000 and Glen Affaric (Glenaffric) 4,000. The convoy escorts were HMS Vanoc and HMS Beagle.

​

BEF soldiers on the Glenaffric.


Courtesy the late Captain Peter Jackson, who was then an Apprentice.[iv]

At 0830 on 18 June the Beagle reported that she had sailed from St Nazaire for Plymouth with the Ulster Prince, Clan Ferguson, Baharistan, each carrying approximately 3,000 troops, David Livingstone with 800 and the Beagle herself with 600, all were short of provisions. Also on 18 June the Polish cargo ship Lechistan, with most of her outward cargo of coal on board, sailed from St Nazaire with 245 refugees and 23 soldiers; reaching Plymouth on 20 June.

On 19 June at 1412 Vanoc reported different loading figures for some of the ships: City of Mobile 3,000 troops with five stretcher cases; Floristan 3,500; Essex Druid 1,500 and five stretcher cases; Dundrum Castle 500; Floristan damaged in engine room by bombing. From the above it is possible to get some idea of the confusion that existed; but, none could doubt that all of the ships performed exceedingly well.

Between 1700 and 1720 on 19 June the Royal Sovereign, Floristan, City of Mobile, Farrian, St Briac, Dundrum Castle, and French Prestin arrived at Plymouth; the Beagle sailed again immediately!

The Bellerophon arrived at Plymouth at 0745 on 18 June. At 0845 HMS Acheron reported meeting Lycaon at 51° 00' N, 06° 00' W en route for the Bristol Channel ‘with 800 troops on board and no rations’. At 1914 the C in C ordered the Vienna, St Julien, St Andrew, Cyclops and Bellerophon to Dartmouth, the Prince Albert to Southampton and the Bactria to Barry. The Arethusa told the Whirlwind to intercept and escort the Madura, out from Le Verdun, to Falmouth and the Nariva to the Bristol Channel: both with refugees.

Sorry about the lack of pics.

Roy


There is a great deal of confusion over times and dates.

[ii] See Appendix One.

[iii] Letter from Brigadier H C Cole of the War Office, quoted by Roskill 'A Merchant Fleet in War'

[iv] Captain Jackson was Master of the QE 2 when she went to the Falklands

 

Chaps,
Many, many thanks for all who have contributed to my enquiry and apologies for the late reply (I hadn't noticed the heads-up in my Inbox!)
Jim - from the MM recommendation for (the heroic) Pte Dean , it's mentioned that only 39 men of the Company were embarked on the Lancastrian. I'm thinking that probably a company size was around 200 men at this time? The chances of my man (3514031 Sgt JV Prince) being on that ship are therefore slim! I will need the War Diary to look at to see if it reveals any more..and the RLC archive too...who knows.
I'm still mystified as to how he got back so late from France - either wounded or he didn't run quick enough! Pending the war Diary, it's easy to imagine that most units in all the chaos were split up into bite size pieces and fended for themselves....
Roy, your forensic analysis of the rescue ships is amazing.
very best

Royston

 

My Grandfather John Humphreys was also part of the same company and survived the Lancastria bombing, he was evacuated on the 21st June also.

 

Craig, That's interesting to hear! Thanks
Did the info on his return date come from his service papers? Or indeed an info what ship this was on?

 

It did, I requested his full service records and it was logged in there his return date from France as the 22nd June

 

Craig, and can I ask, what's the source of the info about his being on and surviving the sinking of Lancastria?
If his dates of return to UK are the same as my man Sgt JV Prince, there's a good probability they were in the same group of soldiers evacuated so late on, by the Royal Navy.
Very interesting!

 

Hi, it was always known in the family that he'd ended up in St Nazaire as part of the 39 Company AMPC as they had made its way west in the Summer of 1940. He'd signed up on 19th October in 1939, trained in Wales and then shipped off to France on 11th October to join the B.E.F. we got told that he'd ended up in the water covered in diesel as the ship sank and eventually got home on 22nd June. The diesel had caused problems with his insides ever since, he worked in P.O.W camps in the UK after he recovered and died of Peritonitus on 5th July 1945, just as the war was ending. His war grave is in Anfield Cemetary in Liverpool. If he hadn't survived the sinking, I wouldn't be here now as he conceived with my Nana my Mum during his recovery.

 

Craig, thanks that's an impeccable source and so sad that the sinking eventually caught up with him so young.
The chap I'm interested in (Sgt Prince) was discharged from the Army within 18 months of returning to duty for repeated bad behavior, so a toll there for sure. One can't help but imagine what an event like the sinking had both physically (your G-Dad) and mentally (Prince) had on survivors of such a cataclysmic trauma....
I am sure the same dates and same AMPC company point to the same group of men retrieved from the water.