4748050 Sapper Leslie Elsworth, Royal Engineers

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by ladytazzie, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. ladytazzie

    ladytazzie New Member

    Hi am new to this great info on here and must apologise if I am posting in the wrong place (please excuse a novice ) I
    Am trying to find any information on my father and his brother but very little to go on about my father and nothing at all about his brother Ernest Arthur Elsworth
    My father was serving in the Royal Engineers ,he was not at home when my brother and I was born both birth certificates says Sapper 4748050 name Leslie Elsworth date on my brothers cert is Dec 1939 mine was July 1944
    I have no information on his Brother only that I was told he may have been in a different unit but changed regiments to Royal Engineers with my father both brothers are now deceased so Ernest son cannot find anything about his dad .they had his medals but lost them because they had a burglary
    I am wanting to send for my dads records
    would appriciate any help thank you iadytazzy
     
  2. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  3. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Welcome to the forum. Firstly you should send off for their official service records, you do not need any military information such as service numbers, just name, date of birth and a death certificate unless they were killed in action.

    Get a copy of military service records

    As far as your father was concerned he did appear in the army casualty lists:-

    List No. 1598 dated 8 November 1944
    Central Mediterranean / Italy / Wounded
    Royal Engineers 4748050 ELSWORTH Spr L 501 Fd Coy 20.10.44

    This was corrected a few days later as 'Listed in error' on List No. 1601 dated 11 November 1944.

    It does provide some useful information on his unit at that time, but beware, you should not automatically assume that he was with 501 Field Company throughout, only his records will reveal. As Owen's post above he also changed regiments at some stage.
     
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  4. ladytazzie

    ladytazzie New Member

    thank you again Owen and Tony you have helped answer question I had heard from some where in my brain I thought he had served in Italy Also my cousin had thought it was his father (Ernest ) that had change units because the story goes Leslie saved his life we thought Ernest had changed units with help from Leslie
    Is there any way of finding any thing about Ernest without his regiment or number please
    Can I more than thank you for your help thank you sooo much I have been reading the good work you do on here for days great work
    Ps my father was a miner but think he must have joined up in1938
     
  5. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Indeed you can, as per my earlier post you do not need any military information such as service numbers or regiments to be able to apply for service records and they are the only way to get the full facts. They are only available from the MOD, as per link, and you will find very little in the public domain. Good luck
     
  6. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi

    Extract from a RE Order of Battle (OOB) that I found on the internet many years ago and I have no idea where it originated from.

    501st Field Coy RE
    • 2nd line Territorial Army; 3 Sep 1939: Chelsea; embodied with 2nd London Division;
    • Relieved 7 Sep 1939 and assigned 1st London [later 56th (London) Infantry] Division
    • Relieved 18 Mar 1943. With 168th (London) Infantry Brigade 9 Apr 1943.
    • Then assigned 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division 27 Apr 1943
    • Relieved 10 Oct 1943. Assigned 56th (London) Infantry Division 13 Oct 1943.
    • Disbanded 1946.
    This would suggest that his unit was in the 56th Inf Div at the time he was wounded and it would appear that 56 Inf DIv were fighting around the Gothic Line at this time.

    56th (London) Infantry Division - Wikipedia

    Gothic Line - Wikipedia

    This still doesn't help you establish when he transferred from the Y & L Regiment to the REs. Only his service record will tell you that.

    Hope this helps

    Gus
     
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  7. ladytazzie

    ladytazzie New Member

    thank you gus I'm a complete novice at this kind of history so all info great fully received ,am I reading and understanding you right please he was in the York and Lancaster division when joining then transferred to the Royal Engineers ,Sorry also to ask but does it mean he joined after being in Territorial army
    Did his service end in 1946
    I would like to thank you all and tell you how much I have enjoyed reading the posts and advise ,I know how to get the service records as I got my uncles who died in Hong Kong then travelled to find his grave (died 1930 ) his records stated enquiry has to death but his medical records did not have any information about the enquiry only where and what he died from
    thanks again am now of to read your links Gus will be sending of for service records next
     
  8. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    He was wounded after the Aug-Sep 44 assault on the Gothic Line which 56 BR Inf Div were heavily involved in. By Nov 44, the assault had run out of stream and 56 BR Inf Div settled in for the winter just beyond the River Marecchia. The game was to wait for the Spring fine weather and relaunch the attack which they did on 1 Apr 45. 56 BR Inf Div had a big role in the Battle of the Argenta Gap. Crossing rivers was all part of it so your father would have been heavily involved.

    As an aside, 56 BR Inf Div had three Field Companies RE and they all worked very, very closely together under the direction of Commander Royal Engineers based at Divisional Headquarters. One of the three was 220 Fd Coy RE who had Officer called CR Milne - the original Christopher Robin of Winnie the Pooh fame.

    If he was with 501 Fd Coy RE when they rejoined 56 BR Infantry Division then that would put him at the crossing of the Volturno in mid-Oct 43, the two Battles of Monte Camino in Nov-Dec 43 and the crossing of the Garigliano in Jan 44. He would have been involved in all the 56 BR Inf Div operations on the Gothic Line around Gemmano and Croce in Sep 44

    Regards

    Frank
     
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  9. ladytazzie

    ladytazzie New Member

    Hi Frank and thank you for your help great bunch on here just been reading Gus link on Gothic Line finding it very interesting
    Never expected to get so much info until I get service records
    thanks again to you all ladietazzy
     

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