4th Armoured Brigade, Tank Casualties, 1945

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by dbf, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Regiment: 44 Royal Tank Regiment

    Serial No.: A.107.

    Mark: III DD

    W.D. No.: 151857

    Date: Not Known

    Photo No.: -

    Figure Nos.: 4, 5
    4th Armoured Brigade, Tank Casualties, 1945

    Range: Not Known

    Cause of Damage: A.P. and H.E. scoops

    Fire Damage: None

    Other tanks involved in same incident:

    Circumstances: Not Known

    Position of Hit: a) A.P. scoop on roof of left petrol tank; b ) H.E. damage to left sprocket.

    Course & Effect of Projectiles: No fire and no apparent internal damage.

    Remarks: Tank seen. No information obtainable from regiment.

    Fate of Crew: Not Known.
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Regiment: 44 Royal Tank Regiment

    Serial No.: A.108.

    Mark: DD

    W.D. No.: Not Known

    Date: About 26 March 1945

    Photo No.: -

    Figure No.: -

    Range: Not Known

    Cause of Damage: A.P. (88 or 105 mm.) hit

    Fire Damage: Not Known

    Other tanks involved in same incident:

    Circumstances: Stationary near DINGEN, engaging 88 mm. and 105 mm. Flak guns which had been firing H.E. when one of them fired an A.P. round.

    Position of Hit: Not Known

    Course & Effect of Projectiles: Not Known

    Remarks: Tank not seen. Information from Squadron Leader.

    Fate of Crew: Unhurt.
     
  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Regiment: 44 Regiment Tank Regiment

    Serial No.: A.109.

    Mark: DD

    W.D. No.: Not Known

    Date: Not Known

    Photo No.: -

    Figure No.: -

    Range: Not Known

    Cause of Damage: A.P. scoop

    Fire Damage: None

    Other tanks involved in same incident:

    Circumstances: Not Known

    Position of Hit: Hit on 75 mm. barrel

    Course & Effect of Projectiles: Gun was unusable and had to be replaced.

    Remarks: Tank not seen. Information from Squadron Leader.

    Fate of Crew: Unhurt.
     
  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Regiment: 44 Royal Tank Regiment

    Serial No.: A.110.

    Mark: DD

    W.D. No.: Not Known

    Date: Not Known

    Photo No.: -

    Figure No.: -

    Range: Not Known

    Cause of Damage: H.C. scoop

    Fire Damage: None

    Other tanks involved in same incident:

    Circumstances: Not Known

    Position of Hit: Scoop on the final drive

    Course & Effect of Projectiles: No major internal damage.

    Remarks: Tank not seen. Information from Squadron Leader.

    Fate of Crew: Unhurt.
     
  5. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    P2940928_4_zps354bf312.jpg

    Regiment: 44 Royal Tank Regiment

    Serial No.: F.28.

    Mark: VI

    W.D. No.: 271425

    Date: Not Known

    Photo No.: 42

    Figure Nos.: 35, 36
    4th Armoured Brigade, Tank Casualties, 1945

    Range: Not Known

    Cause of Damage: A.P. pentration

    Fire Damage: Some, extent Not Known

    Other tanks involved in same incident:

    Circumstances: Near SPELLE. Crew outside when tank was hit.

    Position of Hit: Ragged hole 75 - 100 mm. in diameter at the junction of left side of front of hull.

    Course & Effect of Projectiles: Tank sealed so that its interior could not be properly examined. Damage by fire was at most only partial; the engine was not burnt.

    Remarks: Tank seen.

    Fate of Crew: Unhurt - outside when tank was penetrated.
     
  6. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    P2940926_3_zps6e7aa06f.jpg

    Regiment: 44 Royal Tank Regiment

    Serial No.: F.35.

    Mark: VI

    W.D. No.: 224244

    Date: Not Known

    Photo No.: 40

    Figure Nos.: 35, 36
    4th Armoured Brigade, Tank Casualties, 1945

    Range: Not Known

    Cause of Damage: A.P. scoop

    Fire Damage: Burnt out.

    Other tanks involved in same incident:

    Circumstances: Near SPELLE. Crew outside tank when hit. Turret at 11 o'clock.

    Position of Hit: Scoop on left side hull, below sponson between middle and front bogie suspensions.

    Course & Effect of Projectiles: Shot did not penetrate but caused a crack in the armour. Tank was completely burnt out, but the cause of the fire was not discovered.

    Remarks: Tank seen. Information from Troop Leader.

    Fate of Crew: Unhurt - not in the tank when it was hit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  7. KevinT

    KevinT Senior Member

    Some named tanks from dbf post. Most are obvious from the photos.

    4th Armoured Brigade
    4th/7th Dragoon Guards
    Sherman III
    T152104 SHAGGY DOG C Sqn post no. 6

    If anyone can put names against the WD census number please post them.

    Cheers

    Kevin
     
  8. Glasjanus

    Glasjanus New Member

    Is it possible that there will be a listing for 1944?
    Specific the 44 RTR tank casaulties at 20 september 1944 at Nuenen?
     
  9. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hello Glasjanus,

    As far as this particular survey and file is concerned, there is no data for 1944. You may find information from other sources - perhaps another forum member can help.

    In hindsight it would have been helpful had the men conducting the survey in 1945 made an earlier start. Original data on tank casualties (even that prone to the odd error) for 1944 and indeed in other theatres besides NWE, would be wonderful for research.

    An explanation of the circumstances for the survey from which the above data was extracted can be found in the album linked below. The file also includes a list of sources and references.
    [sharedmedia=gallery:albums:205]

    Regards
     
  10. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Diane

    Sort of proves the point that when up against their special 75mm and 88mm - we usually lost.....both Gerry and I were always grateful to serve in Churchills - but even then an 88mm got me along with four others inside 10 minutes

    Cheers
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hi Tom,
    If you have time, the survey itself in the link makes for interesting reading (The Option button - View all sizes - allows for larger images). The 2 RAMC officers went to (obsessive) lengths to present various comparisons for tank and crew casualties, incl. Churchills, Shermans ... types of ammo/mine, types of injuries sustained, whether in or out of tank, etc etc etc.
    As you allude to from your own experiences, crews of some of the tanks photographed for the survey had very lucky escapes indeed, others not so fortunate. As much as Dad admired his comrades in tanks, I don't think he ever fancied being inside any tank.

    Regards
     
  12. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Diane
    Most Infantrymen would rather walk than sit in a Tank - in fact most would ask us to move on as we attracted the noisy stuff - until they needed us...!.....then tunes were changed

    Cheers
     
  13. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Indeed I think I told you about one occasion when Dad lost yet another platoon officer to return fire. Tanks came, fired at a 'dormant' position and left sharpish... with a few curses helping them along their way.
    Then again he also praised them when they were pinned down and under fire from artillery and SA fire, as the tanks did their job perfectly... "Germans didn't get close enough for me to have to fire."
    I think he got most upset after digging a trench with a fine field of fire for the Bren, when his mate - who was later awarded the MM - came along with his tank and did a great job of removing the hedge in front of them and attracting attention. A tin of bully beef from said S-M's stash was incentive enough to find another spot.
     
  14. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    The report makes one thing clear. Casualties/burns among Sherman crews were in the same proportion as in all other tanks. You were no worse off in a Sherman than in a Churchill, Cromwell or Stuart. .
    Only half the tanks that did burn produced burn casualties.
    81% of non fatal burn casualties returned to Cat A.

    Around 40% of casualties were fatal and a further 10% were wounded who were discharged or unfit to return to duty making total crew wastage 50% of casualties.
    333 tanks were examined and they produced 769 casualties of which 285 were KIA and 484 WIA.
    50% of all casualties occurred outside the tank. 142 of the KIA were killed inside the tank.
    Thus 333 tank casualties made for 384 lost crew members.
     
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