524 Squadron Coastal Command

Hi to everyone!

I am a newbie on the board as of tonight.

I am hoping that someone out there may be able to help me. I am trying to get some info on my Uncle, Dennis Jenner Howard Sayers who served with 524 squadron during 1944-45 at Langham in Norfolk. He was MIA on 13 Jan 1945 along with all of his crew.

If anyone can help me with this period of time, or indeed, with any info as to where he may have been before, I would be most greatful as would my 7 year old son (and Dennis's two surviving brothers) .

All I know about the 'crash' is that he should have been doing a shipping sweep over the fresian islands, but we have reason to believe that this was not quite the case.

Any info would be most greatfully received.

Thank you to all and thanks for such a great forum!

Lynda

 

Hi Lynda
Welcome aboard. Here is a start for you.

Name:SAYERS, DENNIS JENNER HOWARD
Initials J H
Nationality:United Kingdom
Rank:Flight Sergeant
Regiment/Service:Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text:524 Sqdn.
Age:28
Date of Death:13/01/1945
Service No:1334177
Additional information:Son of Archie Howard Sayers and Bessie Marie Sayers, of Brighton, Sussex; husband of Eva Phyllis Sayers, of Bevendean, Brighton.
Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:Panel 272.
Memorial:RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

 

From the Aussie National Archives (there were a few Aussies on board):

File type - Casualty - Repatriation; Aircraft - Wellington HZ644; Place - Northern Coast, Holland (Fresian Islands / lost at sea, North West Europe area); Date - 13 January 1945

WEBSTER, Ralph - (Warrant Officer); Service Number - 426418 RAAF

DATSON, Edgar Jack - (Warrant Officer); Service Number - 426552 RAAF

HAM, Geoffrey William DFC - (Pilot Officer); Service Number - 420468 RAAF

McGREGOR, RONALD HAMILTON DFC – (Flight Lieutenant); Service Number – 123234 RAF

SARSON, GERALD ANTHONY – (Flight Sergeant); Service Number – 1602501 RAF

SAYERS, DENNIS JENNER HOWARD – (Sergeant); Service Number – 1334177 RAF

KIRTLEY, David – (Warrant Officer); Service Number – 1332561 RAF

The casualty files for the three have not been digitised as yet, if they get a request to do so then quite often the wealth of info they contain is astounding (sometimes provide precise location of crash etc). All three file headers show a variation on the location as I have added above in brackets.

 

Distinguished Flying Cross - SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 16 MARCH, 1945

Flight Lieutenant (Ronald Hamilton MCGREGOR (123234), R.A.F.V.R., 524 Sqn.
Pilot Officer Geoffrey William HAM (Aus. 420468), R.A.A.F., 524 Sqn.

As pilot and navigator of aircraft respectively, these officers have taken part in a good number of sorties, some of them in extremely adverse weather. They have displayed commendable skill and courage and throughout have set a high standard of devotion to duty. On one occasion during a sortie in December, 1944, they sighted six E. boats leaving Ijmuiden, Flight Lieutenant McGregor immediately turned to the attack. In spite of fierce anti-aircraft fire, an excellent run was made and the bombs straddled the vessels.

One of the boats fell out of formation and then apparently sank. After making another attack on the enemy force they shadowed the vessels and reported their position whilst further attacks were made by other aircraft. Flight Lieutenant McGregor and Pilot Officer Ham displayed exceptional resolution throughout this notable sortie.

 

Stupid me - most of the research for these casualties has already been done by Alan Storr for the AWM. The basis for his research was the aforementioned casualty files from the NAA.

The files are available as huge pdf documents on the AWM database (which I have quite cleverly copied to my hard-drive).

Here is the extract from the relevant page for this incident:

RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT IN ROYAL AIR FORCE SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS IN WORLD WAR 2 AND MISSING WITH NO KNOWN GRAVE.

Aircraft Type: Wellington
Serial number: HZ 644
Unit: 524 Sqn RAF

Summary:

Wellington HZ 644 of No 524 Sqn RAF, took off from RAF Station Langham at 1546 hours of 13 January 1945 to carry out an armed recce against enemy shipping off the Frisian Islands. The patrol was to commence at 5400N 0700E and after covering an area up to 5350N 0815E to follow the inner convoy route to Borkum, and from thence to make for base due at 1946 hours. No messages were received from the aircraft which did not return to base. No reports were received from later aircraft on similar mission other than heavy flak from Nordernay to Borkum.

Beaufighters and a Warwick aircraft made searches during daylight, but no trace of the aircraft or crew were found. It was assumed that the crew were lost at sea.

The crew were on their 29th mission when they failed to return.

 

=DaveB;324587]Stupid me - most of the research for these casualties has already been done by Alan Storr for the AWM. The basis for his research was the aforementioned casualty files from the NAA.

The files are available as huge pdf documents on the AWM database (which I have quite cleverly copied to my hard-drive).

Hi Dave,

From a website or a CD from the library?

Cheers

Geoff

 

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I wish you well with your research.

Regards
Tom

 

Welcome to the forum
please find attached a photograph of the panel from Runnymede Memorial showing D.J.H.Sayers

 

none of the Schnellboots were sunk or damaged this night, the Coastal Wellington was shot down by a Ju 88G-6 crew

 

Hi Dave,

From a website or a CD from the library?

Cheers

Geoff


Struth Spidge - you're the one who put me on to them. I think you sent me the link for one of his efforts, with a bit of research I found all 13 (?) of his studies.

I just assumed you had all of them and sent me one to let me know they were there. If you like I will add them to the next USB stick I send down to you. No point wasting download time doing it yourself if I already have (I cheated and did it at work as their server is a lot faster than mine).

My rough calculation is that he has provided cause of death / details of death for up to 7000 casualties.

His work contains the usual petty errors, probably mostly carried over from the various official sites he utilised (and probably on a par with my efforts, every time I check work I have done previously I find something else I messed up). All up a brilliant effort over many years by the looks of it (living in the ACT and being a volunteer at the AWM certainly helped).

cheers


DB

 

none of the Schnellboots were sunk or damaged this night, the Coastal Wellington was shot down by a Ju 88G-6 crew

Sorry, you've lost me. What Schnellboots? Nothing was heard of this aircraft on it's last mission, do you have access to a report that shows that it participated in an attack on some enemy boats that night?

Or are you commenting on two seperate posts? That the official report is wrong and no Schnellboots were sunk during the attack in December 1944 that led to the awarding of the DFC to two of the crew.....

As for the shooting down by a Ju88 of this crew in January 1945, the RAF / RAAF files don't have that data, is there a report confirming the cause of the loss from "the other side"?

cheers


Dave

 

for your 3 rd posting about December 44 no losses, yes I have S-Boot documentation

M. Koppe of III./NJG 2 flying out of Marx or Varel shoots down a Wellington

 

WOW!

Thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time and trouble to find out such valuable information for me. It just makes me wonder what else could be found!

I would love to know where Dennis served before Langham now! Neither my Dad, or his brother, my uncle, can help however they too would love to know more about their older brother Dennis.

Where do I start?!!

Kind regards to you all


Lynda

 

Lynda

a start would be to apply for his service records
Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Personnel | Service Records | Making a Request for Information held on the Personnel Records of Deceased Service Personnel

 

Sorry, you've lost me. What Schnellboots? Nothing was heard of this aircraft on it's last mission, do you have access to a report that shows that it participated in an attack on some enemy boats that night?

Or are you commenting on two seperate posts? That the official report is wrong and no Schnellboots were sunk during the attack in December 1944 that led to the awarding of the DFC to two of the crew.....

As for the shooting down by a Ju88 of this crew in January 1945, the RAF / RAAF files don't have that data, is there a report confirming the cause of the loss from "the other side"?

cheers


Dave

Slightly off the line did you see the Schnellboot in the programme on BBC called the Real story of the BoB? Look like they are doing it up. Hope they get there with it as its the only one?
Dee

 

Hi to everyone!

I am a newbie on the board as of tonight.

I am hoping that someone out there may be able to help me. I am trying to get some info on my Uncle, Dennis Jenner Howard Sayers who served with 524 squadron during 1944-45 at Langham in Norfolk. He was MIA on 13 Jan 1945 along with all of his crew.

If anyone can help me with this period of time, or indeed, with any info as to where he may have been before, I would be most greatful as would my 7 year old son (and Dennis's two surviving brothers) .

All I know about the 'crash' is that he should have been doing a shipping sweep over the fresian islands, but we have reason to believe that this was not quite the case.

Any info would be most greatfully received.

Thank you to all and thanks for such a great forum!

Lynda
hello Lynda,
have just read your post re your Uncle in 524 Squadron.
Until reading Erich's post I too had no idea what had happened to my father (G A Sarson - Tony - the second pilot). Not sure his source, but I will contact him to ask more.
very best wishes
Gerry Sarson

 

none of the Schnellboots were sunk or damaged this night, the Coastal Wellington was shot down by a Ju 88G-6 crew
Erich,
just to say thanks for your help, from my Aunt, Sister, and me.
Info was greatly appreciated
best regards
Gerry Sarson

 

Slightly off the line did you see the Schnellboot in the programme on BBC called the Real story of the BoB? Look like they are doing it up. Hope they get there with it as its the only one?
Dee
hello Dave,
no, not querying the official report re the December sinking - my father's logbook describes it as attacking E-Boats - 'got one, and shadowed for the Navy who got another'.
I was interested in any further info re the nightfighter, and Erich very kindly supplied this.
Incidentally, I think my father was a Sgt Pilot, not a Flight Sgt. He was second pilot on the aircraft - P/O Ham was navigator
best regards
Gerry Sarson

 

Hi Gerry!

It is so good to finally have contact with someone who also knew my uncle via a family member. I would love to e-mail you and would love to know if you have any photos - we have none.

My e-mail address is l.j.sayers@btinternet.com Please contact me sometime

Kind regards

Lynda Sayers (neice of Dennis Jenner Howard Sayers, 524 Squadron)

 

Hi Gerry!

It is so good to finally have contact with someone who also knew my uncle via a family member. I would love to e-mail you and would love to know if you have any photos - we have none.

My e-mail address is l.j.sayers@btinternet.com Please contact me sometime

Kind regards

Lynda Sayers (neice of Dennis Jenner Howard Sayers, 524 Squadron)

Hi Lynda

I too have a relative who served and died with 524 squadron, His name was Nathaniel Cowley (Tito) he was a W/Op Air gunner on a Wimpey that exploded after being hit by Flack on a mission to the Friesian islands in November 1944. Nothing was ever found from the plane or its crew. I'll put some more details on here of bits of info I have gathered as it may be of interest to others. I have some details of 524s locations but they moved around a lot and the squadron appears to have operated from different locations simultaneously. Langham and Docking in Norfolk were in use during 1944/45. I did get some squadron photos taken in 1944 of the whole squadron in 1944 and smaller groups of NCO's and commissioned officers. These were from Bob Davies who served with the squadron. It has been some years since I last spoke to him. I'll send you copies of these.
Cheers
Roy