56 (LONDON) INFANTRY DIVISION (1943-45)

Discussion in 'Higher Formations' started by Lee1983, May 2, 2022.

  1. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    Hi, can anyone help me with the following please. My grandfather was in the 7TH BATALLION OXFORDSHIRE & BUCKINGHAMSHIRE LIGHT INFANTRY / 167TH (LONDON) INFANTRY BRIGADE / 56TH LONDON INFANTRY DIVISION “BLACK CATS” between 11 July 1944 and 2 Dec 1944 and 2ND/6TH BATALLION “QUEEN’S” ROYAL REGIMENT / 169TH INFANTRY BRIGADE / 56TH LONDON INFANTRY DIVISION “BLACK CATS”. I would like to know if he would have been part of the 8th Army and the Desert Rats with one or both of the above regiments.
     
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

  3. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    56 Inf Div were part of Eighth Army until they were switched to US Fifth Army for the 9 Sep 43 landings at Salerno.

    They stayed with Eighth Army until being withdrawn from Italy to rest and rebuild in Apr 44.

    When they returned to Italy in time for the Sep 44 attack on the Gothic Line, they were put back into the Eighth Army where they stayed until the rest of the war until 2 May 44.

    Regards

    Frank
     
    Thistle746 likes this.
  4. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Hi Lee, short answer is yes, the 56th (London) Infantry Division was part of 8th Army during the autumn of 1944 but no, not really, the "Desert Rats" were the 7th Armoured Division who were serving in NW Europe by then.

    Regards

    Tom
     
  5. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    Hi Tom, thank you for the answer. My Grandfather was also part of the 75TH HEAVY ANTI-AIRCRAFT REGIMENT ROYAL ARTILLERY 233 and 306 Batteries between 16 Sept 1940 and June 1944. Would it be possible as he was part of the Desert Rats during this time then as he was definitely as he was definitely a Desert Rat.
     
  6. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  7. Tom OBrien

    Tom OBrien Senior Member

    Hi Lee,

    I think most service men and women who served in the Middle East would have regarded themselves as "Desert Rats".

    1st Cinque Ports Artillery Volunteers - Wikipedia

    The wiki page for 75th HAA Regiment explains that they served in Iraq and it looks like your GF was one of the many AA gunners who were converted to infantrymen as the threat from the Luftwaffe decreased and the need for infantrymen increased.

    Regards

    Tom
     
  8. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    Hi Tom,
    So from what you have said would that mean none of the batallations he was with were connected to the "Desert Rats". Below is an excerpt from my grandfathers service record of his time with the Royal Artillery at the start of his service.

    16 SEPT 1940 - DEEMED TO HAVE ENLISTED AND POSTED TO 233 BATTERY
    14 OCT 1940 - POSTED TO 306 BATTERY
    28 MAY 1942 - PROCEEDED OVERSEAS
    30 JULY 1942 - DISEMBARKED PORT SUEZ. TAKEN ON STRENGTH. MIDDLE EAST FORCES WITH EFFECT FROM 25 JULY 1942
    16 AUG 1942 - EMBARKED EGYPT TAKEN ON STRENGTH
    27 AUG 1942 - DISEMBARKED IRAQ
    1 DEC 1943 - AWARDED AFRICA STAR
    28 APR 1944 - STRUCK OF STRENGTH PAIFORCE AND TAKEN ON STRENGTH MEDITERRANEAN EXPEDITIONARY FORCE
    4 JUNE 1944 - ATTACHED TO 56 DIVISION
    10 JUNE 1944 - ATTACHED TO 7TH OXFORDSHIRE & BUCKINGHAMSHIRE REGIMENT
     
  9. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    I have also found the following which indicates he would of been part of the "Desert Rats" in Italy during 1945. The final year of the war began for 7th Armoured Brigade when on 3rd January 1945, 2 RTR, eliminated a bridgehead west of Furli. There were two pockets of land on the east side of Senio River had to be eliminated (called the Cassanigo pocket) before the big spring offensive could start. Operation 'Cygnet' was led by 2 RTR, followed by 2/6th Queens infantry in Kangaroos, and then by the rest of 169th Brigade, from 56th (London) Brigade. In thick fog, over waterlogged but now frozen ground the Germans were taken by surprise, as they had never encountered infantry operating from Kangaroos. Over 200 prisoners were taken and a number of tanks and SP guns were captured.
     
  10. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    Hi, can anyone shed any light on whether my grandfather would have been part of the Desert Rats during WW2 please. Below is a list of who he served with and dates.

    75TH HEAVY ANTI-AIRCRAFT REGIMENT ROYAL ARTILLERY WITH 233 AND 306 BATTERY - 16 Sept 1940 to 10 June 1944

    7TH BATALLION OXFORDSHIRE & BUCKINGHAMSHIRE LIGHT INFANTRY - 167TH (LONDON) INFANTRY BRIGADE - 56TH LONDON INFANTRY DIVISION “BLACK CATS” - 11 July 1944 to 2 Dec 1944

    2ND/6TH BATALLION “QUEEN’S” ROYAL REGIMENT - 169TH INFANTRY BRIGADE - 56TH LONDON INFANTRY DIVISION “BLACK CATS” - 6 Jan 1945 to 2 Feb 1946
     
  11. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    Hi Tom, did you add the note to say he was definitely a desert rat. I am pretty new here and just noticed the comment saying he was definitely a desert rat
     
  12. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    Anyone else able to add any more information to this thread to help me please
     
  13. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    The text about "definitely a desert rat" first appears in one of your own posts, which is a little confusing.
     
  14. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    I'm afraid to say that this does not indicate that he was part of the Desert Rats. 7th Armoured Brigade and 7th Armoured Division were two different things, for one. Brigades were a part of divisions, right? And it's true that 7th Armoured Brigade had been part of 7th Armoured Division but that was not the case in 1945. The other thing is that the action you describe is one in which tanks of 7th Armoured Brigade were helping 169th Brigade ... neither was joining the other.
     
  15. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    I remember posting some details on another thread dealing with this but is seems to have disappeared?
     
  16. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    That is correct, I was new to the site and was not sure what I was doing with my postings so I got admin to delete them so I could start fresh with one thread.
     
  17. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    This link seems to suggest 7th armoured Brigade were the desert rats 7th Armoured Brigade (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

     
  18. Gary Tankard

    Gary Tankard Well-Known Member

    You may find that most British veterans who served in the 8th Army in North Africa regarded themselves to some degree as 'Desert Rats'.

    Without verifying - wasn't the whole of the 8th Army referred to as 'Desert Rats' by the contemporary newspapers? I'm not sure the arguments about divisions/brigades and formation signs really mattered.
     
  19. Lee1983

    Lee1983 Well-Known Member

    Is there a way of finding out which company within a regiment that my grandfather was with. I have been given a copy of the 7 Ox and Bucks War Diaries for the period my grandfather was with them and would like to try and find out which of the companies he was in. Also is there a way of finding out more about his wounded in action. There is mention of him being admitted to field ambulance and general hospitals as follows.
    25 SEPT 1944 ADMITTED 2/4 FIELD AMBULANCE
    30 SEPT 1944 TRANSFERRED TO 11 GENERAL HOSPITAL
    5 OCT 1944 TRANSFERRED TO 95 GENERAL HOSPITAL
     
  20. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Unlikely.

    F
     

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