75mm GMC M3 and 4.recce

Hi,
I was looking though osprey's book on the recce corps, and noticed that they have some 75mm GMC M3 seld propelled guns as being noted as belonging to 4. recce, in action during 'operation olive' (pg18), later it notes that this again pg 20-21. I've never seen anything else on recce being equiped with 75mm guns, were there other? How did they fit in into the formation? How many did they have? And any other information you might have about them.

 

Digit,
Welcome to the site.
I have no confirmation, but my father was in the 4th Recce Regt, 4th Infantry Division in Italy.

I always thought he was trying to impress me when he said that they had 75mm cannons fitted on their White Scout cars.
My late father told me that they had 4 in his unit all named after the muskiteers.
D'Artagnan, Porthos, Aramis and Athos.

It would be really nice for some one to confirm this.
It will be some time before I can see his records as I have to start from scratch after the Royal Mail lost my fathers records.
I have applied on line for his Death Certificate which should be with me by the end of December, then I have to apply for the actual records from Glasgow.

Regards
Tom

 

Hmmm, thats really interesting, I wonder how they fitted into the regimental organisation?

 

The 75mm Gun Motor Carriage M3 in British service in Italy, March 1945.


apparently known to the British as the "75mm SP Autocar" due to the manufacturer. They were landed by the US in the Tunisian campaign and handed over to the British when they were replaced by full-track tank destroyers. They were used in HQ squadrons of Tank and Armoured car regiments. Where they formed 'heavy' or 'support' troops. I think as one troop of four per HQ squadron.

 

I was always sceptical about the size, but as I say I cannot corroborate the story.

I am certain about the White scout car, it was not a half track. Perhaps he was mistaken with the calibre, but what stood out was the fact that they were all named after the four Muskiteers.

If anyone can help with this I would be eternally grateful as my father was not prone to romance, especially about Italy in WW2.

Regards

Tom

 

The photos shown in osprey's book are half-tracked and as said refer to 4. recce. Wat really puzzles me is that i know armoured car regiments were equiped with them as Bodston said, I just never heard of a recce regiments being equiped with them.
Anyone interested in seeing them the picture can be found here:
The British Reconnaissance Corps in ... - Google Book Search
on page 18

 

Dijit, I always assumed that Recce troops were issued with armoured cars from the end of the Tunisian campaign. Is that not correct?
If so, the arrival of the GMC's would be around the same time. Would they have replaced the mortar troop in HQ Sqn?

Bod

 

Dijit/Bod,

The Osprey book shows Staghounds, which my father also mentioned they received.
I hope to be receiving the Osprey and a couple more books on the subject for Christmas.
One book arrived, but I do not know which one! Two of the books are pure Recce and the other is about the 4th Infantry Division.

Regards

Tom

 

From waht I can understand the GMC's arrived in the late spring of '44, so after the invasion of Italy. It mentions that 1. Recce were also equiped with 8 75mm spg half tracks along with its reorganised assault troops. My guess is that they'd replace the mortar section too, though this is only a guess.

 

All the research I have carried out recently is that a 3.7 cm cannon was fitted to the M3A1 White Scout car, which was designated the M3A1E3 and using M3 gun mounting.

There were only a few made and it never reached serial production.

It Appears that the Half track was the only one fitted with a 75mm gun.

As the Scout car was considered obsolete in 1942, this would make sense with Dijit's observation of the Half Tracks being issued Late Spring 44.
By 1945 they had Staghounds as standard Recce vehicles.

Some pictures attached of the White Scout car, which was quite roomy.

Left is Scout car
Centre is a Re-enactment in Normandy
Right is a Jeep fitted witha 3.7cm cannon as fitted to the scout car.

 

My guess is that the tyres of a scout car wouldn't be stabile enough for a 75mm gun. Smudger, do you have any idea when the recce regiments were refitted with staghounds? I know that 4. recce had them by the end of '44. And I'm still interested to hear how these 75mm spg's were fitted into the regiment organisation.

 

Dijit,
I am afraid that I too am in the dark until I can actually pin down my fathers unit.
I suspect it was the Assault Trooper Element of the Recce, but I will only find out when I apply for and receive his records.

In my opinion the 75 mms would have been with the Assault elements, as it makes more sense.

I hope to learn a little more from one of my christmas Presents, a book devoted to the 4th Infantry Division, if it arrives in time, that is.

I have no date that the Staghounds were obtained, but I know like you that the 4th had them when you stated, due to the fact that they took them to Greece in the new Year of 1945.

If I find anything else of interest I will post or PM you.

Regards
Tom

 

Owen,
Thanks for posting the super photo.

Regards
Tom

 

Owen,

The Guards Units were quite well known and considered Elite units, whereas The 4th Division were not.
As Trooper Tom Canning once told me, without being disrepectful, it was like comparing a Premier league side to a First Division side. The Fourth Division was a hard working Division, but did not have the Glamour of the so called Elite units.

In this regard I think the Guards would get the first pick of replacement vehicles.

Regards

Tom

 

56. recce also had greyhounds in september 1944, they're the only recce unit I know that had them, but maybe the staghounds arrived around the same time.

 

Just reading Ron Tee's book. The Recce were allocated 28 Greyhounds fitted with 37mm main gun. Did the 56th get all 28?
Read somewhere it was a Greyhound of the 56th Reece that had the distinction as the first Eighty Army vehicle to pass from Italy into Austria in May 1945

 

Tom,

Is it possable your old man called the half track white armoured cars due to the simalarity between the half track and scout car?