OK I thought I'd put together a little guide on how to find a particular British Army war diary at the National Archives. 1. The vital piece of information you need to know is what theatre the unit was in at a particular time or under whose command. The war diaries are arranged by command, following the Order of Battle. For example if you were searching for the war diary of the 225 Field Company RE in May 1940, you need to search the index for the British Expeditionary Force as they were at Dunkirk at the time. Here is the list of commands with their associated TNA reference series number:War Office Directorates - WO 165 Home Forces - WO 166 British Expeditionary Force - WO 167 North-West Expeditionary Force - WO 168 Middle East Forces - WO 169 Central Mediterranean Forces - WO 170 North-West Europe - WO 171 South-East Asia Command - WO 172 West Africa Forces - WO 173 Madagascar - WO 174 British North Africa Forces - WO 175 Various smaller theatres - WO 176 Medical services - WO 177 Military Missions - WO 178 Dominion Forces WO 179 GHQ Liaison Regiment* - WO 215 Special Services - WO 218 Ships Signals Sections* - WO 257 Royal Marine Commandos - DEFE 2 * These series include associated papers For the 225 Field Company RE war diary for May 1940, you need to search in WO 167 – British Expeditionary Force. 2. So visit TNA online catalogue here: Detecting your browser settings 3. In the box for “Department or Series Code” enter the reference series number you found above, e.g. WO 167 4. In the box for “Word or Phrase” you can try a number of things. If you tried “225 Field Company” you’re not going to find anything because abbreviations are used in the index. In this particular case I’d try the search phrase “225”. If the unit/company number is low then try something like “Royal Engineers” to find the subdivision in the listing and then use the “Browse from here” button to scan through the entries from the start of that subdivision, as all the Royal Engineer units will be grouped together. The same for Royal Artillery, etc. 5. Hit the search button! In this example the reference returned for the 225 Fd. Coy. is WO 167/979. That is the file reference number to use to order the document at Kew. Detecting your browser settings Hope this helps? Lee
Thanks for share your experience, dear PsyWar.Org! In my attempts to research in the National Archives I reminded that is a very hard task...! Jan.
Hopefully in a few months time I'm going to visit NARA (US National Archives) for the first time. So if anyone has any tips for a trip to NARA I'd like to here them. I understand that you're allowed to use scanners, which is a big bonus over TNA - and no crown copyright issues either
Hopefully in a few months time I'm going to visit NARA (US National Archives) for the first time. So if anyone has any tips for a trip to NARA I'd like to here them. I understand that you're allowed to use scanners, which is a big bonus over TNA - and no crown copyright issues either T.N.A. have now provided 3 extra copying tables with 8 camera stands on each. These are on top of the original ones on the pillars near the windows. Tables 15 , 25 and 34. Anyone with two acceptable forms of Identity can get a readers card and start research straight away. In the F.R.C. Section it is not necessary to even register.See the Web Site. There is no problem using a digital Camera to copy as many pages as you wish.The most taken during a visit was 2214. The only thing you can't use is Flash. For obvious reasons. With regard to Crown Copyright ; last year after Creating a Catalogue of all the WW2 Escapers and Evaders Reports,Copyright was granted to me by just asking for it. Brian
Thats a great help, just applied for the Diaries of the 2nd Battalion North Staffs, been trying to find these for years!!
Thats a great help, just applied for the Diaries of the 2nd Battalion North Staffs, been trying to find these for years!! Depending on exactly how much of them you want, they'll cost you a fortune for the NA to get them for you!!! (I applied for just one month's worth of diaries for a unit a year or so ago and it came to £18!!!!). If you need May 1940 for the 2/N.Staffs, knock it off your request because I've already got that bit (which, if the NA was to supply it to you in the cheapest format (paper) would cost £9.90 alone!). Just send me an address and I'll whack it onto a CD for you. Dave.
I really should try to visit NA for a copy of 2nd Division RE diaries for May 1940 before I start detailed planning of my ride to Dunkirk next May. Perhaps some of the NA regulars could give me some guidance ? HQ RE 2nd Division War Diary. There are other diaries that I'd quite like to look at as well. What are the chances of getting the reader's ticket sorted out and a batch of six diaries looked at in one day ? The ticket is complicated by my address documents all being in Dutch. I've mailed them to ask just how a credit card statement can be translated. Are they generally helpful there or is it full of jobsworths looking for reasons not to ? Can I best use a small tripod for the likelihood that I can't get a camera stand ? Any advice on compact camera settings ? Better practice I suppose. Rich
Six months' worth of unit diaries should be achievable in a day - as long as you remember to photograph themm and not get distracted into reading them! As a stack of war diaries in a single campaign will be in the same series, you can do a bulk order and have them all waiting for you. Lighting is not particularly bright but if you have a reasonably modern camera with stabilisation you can get reasonable results. A tripod may be more trouble than it's worth as you may not have enough room to set everything out. You can't use flash, but take plenty of spare batteries and memory cards if you've got them. I usually go for B&W unless the documents are coloured. If you are after the info rather than a nice picture try the camera on high-ish ISO and higher-than-normal contrast/vibrancy if you have any control over those aspects. Don't forget to take a photo of the cover and reference. Take a couple of sheets of plain A4 to put behind the thinner docs. They are generally helpful!
Rich The guys have covered most of the aspects you need for Kew,and useually the staff there are quite helpfull! (3 times I've had a slapped wrist). As to the readers ticket a passport with photo +address is the 1st best form of ID, with the second something like a U/Bill etc to compare the address with the passport (Dutch dose'nt matter). Just two more things I would advise; Turn off camera shutter sound (in the rules anyway),as there is nothing worse than a shutter banging away all day, till the man comes round and bo---cks you. Try to get a seat near the windows, as the light is better for pics without flash. Regards Rob
At this time of year the reading room lights are on all day now as the windows face North. Roughly. The only problem I have found is that the camera stand can cast a shadow over the area you are photographing. Copies still very readable though. I have noticed that seat 5F is usually clear of shadow. There is nothing to stop you using the stands near the window if any are free as they are not allocated. Brian
Very useful thread. I know its simple but I find it saves so much time to do your groundwork with the catalogue before you go. Also try and juggle your ordering so you dont find yourself without any documents to look at. Has anyone else noticed any general rules about how detailed the War Diaries are? I've found that Home Forces war diaries are more detailed, whereas overseas ones are more succinct. Stands to reason I guess. How much depended on the Adjutant of each unit?
The only problem I have found is that the camera stand can cast a shadow over the area you are photographing. Copies still very readable though. I have noticed that seat 5F is usually clear of shadow. There is nothing to stop you using the stands near the window if any are free as they are not allocated. Brian Was allocated 5F yesterday and as you say, it's clear of shadow. Only problem was that rattling noise from the air-conditioning unit in the ceiling behind me. Take an ipod. The guy next to me had the right idea. If you've got a lot of War Diaries to do, another tip is after you've completed the copying of one diary, you should be able to order another 3 and never have to wait and so on. In this way, I was able to get through a total of 33 copied (varying sizes) and snapped about 2500 images over a 9 hour session. PS - take a day off after to relax as you will need it.
Rob. At this rate of fire you should junk your other job and turn PRO! What a living. Day on and day off. Rob
