A scout car in Partina, Casentino Valley.

Discussion in 'Italy' started by Caste, Nov 25, 2022.

  1. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Good morning everyone,
    I'm looking for some help about an interesting story happened in Casentino.
    Approximately on the very last days of August/very first days of September 1944 a scout car was roaring on the road leading to PARTINA, a little village in the Casentino Valley, when it was put out of combact due to some MG fire. All the crew managed to survive and return to the allied front line.
    In the days following this event, a group of two civilians (some say three) was seen by the germans looting the scout car. They germans shot at them, making them escape. The civilians seek help at the Priest house of Partina. The germans started looking into evey house of the village (most of the people had already run away because the front line was quite close) and when they entered into the priest house they found allied food, cigarettes and a map, all material taken by the civilians from the scout car.
    The name of the Priest was Don Ezio Turinesi. They thought the Priest was a spy, that he had something to do with the partisans, so they took him and execute him on 5 September 1944.
    Now, I would like to find out in which unit the scout car was. Someone says it was a Gurkha scout car, but there Is no proof of that.
    Saldy, for the Casentino Valley I do not know that much about the allies perspective, so any help will be welcome! From the germans perspective, that part of territory was under 305 ID.
    I'll upload a map showing where Is Partina. As you can see, it's between the triangle Poppi - Bibbiena - Camaldoli. See the Red dot.
    Thanks of any help! Screenshot_2022-11-25-07-37-54-275_com.google.android.apps.maps.jpg
     
  2. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    See the red dot, that is where Partina is. Territory of 305.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Caste,

    There are approx. nine threads here that include Casentino in the text. Have you checked them? I notice at least one thread shows the 4th Indian Division was present.

    This may identify who lost the scout car:
    From: 21st Horse (Central India Horse) - Wikipedia

    The carriers do look like the standard Daimler scout car. See: Armoured Carrier Wheeled Indian Pattern - Wikipedia
     
  4. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    When researching my book 'The Arezzo Massacres' I came across an account by partisan leader Raffaello Sacconi (See also BiblioToscana - Partigiani in Casentino e Val di Chiana) which I quoted as follows:

    On 30 August Skinners Horse, the reconnaissance regiment of 10 Indian Division, arrived at Bibbiena and on 13 September the Allied troops were in Poppi. To the dismay of the partisans an 'official of a Scottish regiment' demanded with what Raffaello Sacconi, commander of the 'Licio Nencetti' described as 'authoritarian methods' that they should hand over their five automatic pistols. A 'captain of a Gurkha regiment', after having interrogated a partisan, forced him to hand over his weapon....

    Partina lies 8 Km to the north of Poppi, so it is reasonable to assume that the scout car belonged either to Skinner's Horse or to the Lovat Scouts, a 'Scottish Regiment', which had been under orders of 10 Indian Division since 6 August.

    However, these dates don't tie in with the execution of the priest.

    Does anyone have the relevant war diaries?

    Vitellino
     
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  5. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Hi David,
    I'll give a look at the other trends about Casentino Valley. Thank you.
     
  6. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Hello Vitellino,
    thank you for your contribution. Most of the sources I have studied say that the priest was killed on 5th september 1944, but there's a couple of them that say that he was killed on 28th of August. One of the sources supporting the latter thesis is the following ( Biblioteca Multimediale: POPPI UN PAESE TRA DUE GUERRE a cura di ILDEBRANDO CAIAZZO - Associazione Nazionale Combattenti e Reduci see page 103).
    If you say that the Lovat Scouts had been under orders of 10 Indian Division since August 6, then it's too early because the priest died on the 28th of August.
    Maybe the Skinner Horse reconnaissance regiment's War Diary and the 21 Horse divisional recoinnassance regiment of 4th Indian Division can help us with the research? Is there anyone in the group who got them and wants to share it with us?
    P.S. I read about your book in this website, which has been helpful to me for my researches in the Valdarno Valley (L'Autrice).
     
  7. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    I think the war diaries are essential.
     
  8. GANDALF

    GANDALF Member

    unfortunately I have only august. These are the last two pages 20140718_104554.jpg 20140718_104601.jpg
     
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  9. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Dear Gandalf,
    thank you for your precious contribution.
    The problem is that there are two possible dates on which Don Ezio's execution is mentioned: 25 August at Campaldino (Campo Roncoli locality, municipality of Poppi), or 5 September in the woods of Camaldoli, Le Capanne locality.
    Could you put the pages preceding 26 August, so that we can see if there were other patrol actions in the vicinity of Partina or if, in any case, it is mentioned other times besides 30 August?
    Caste
     
  10. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    25 agosto.png
    This is the map on 25th August 1944. The lowest red circle is Partina, the highest is Camadoli. I see no 10 Infantry Division on this german map, only 4 Infantry Division, but perhaps the Germans did not have all the detailed information on the enemy at that time.
     
  11. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    5 settembre.png
    This is the map on the 5th September. Same as before, the lowest red circle is Partina, the highest is Camadoli. Consider the differences in the line between the 25 and the 5... what do you think?
     
  12. GANDALF

    GANDALF Member

    20140718_104532.jpg
     
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  13. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Thank you Gandalf, but it doesn't seem to be any mention to PARTINA, not even any reference to a possible scout car hit and abandoned by the crew.
    This allows us to propose two conclusions:
    1) we should check the first days of September of the Skinner Horse war diary;
    2) Skinner horses have nothing to do with it, the scout car belonged to another unit.
    Gandalf, due to your willingness I ask you if you have the War Diaries of this unit "21 Horse divisional recoinnassance regiment of 4th Indian Division" and, if yes, if you can kindly share them here.
     
  14. GANDALF

    GANDALF Member

    No Caste, I am sorry
     
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  15. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Still need help with this topic:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  16. James M. Green

    James M. Green Active Member

    KDG were nearby at the time with their armoured cars (plus foot patrols and horses), reaching Poppi at the end of September. They were part of the force with the Lovat Scouts.

    Whilst they did lose some Dingo's over the 27th to 28th August, they suffered casualties for both events - so unfortunately I don't think they are related.

    Hope you get there Caste.

    All the best
    James
     
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  17. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Hi James,
    thank you for your contribution. What does KDG stand for?
     
  18. James M. Green

    James M. Green Active Member

    1st King's Dragoon Guards, they joined up with Lovat's mid September
     
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  19. Caste

    Caste Active Member

    Thank you! Do you have any War Diaries?
     
  20. James M. Green

    James M. Green Active Member

    I'll pm you about KDG :)
     

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