After a Pt II order

Discussion in 'RASC' started by Bob Mirams, Mar 24, 2022.

  1. Bob Mirams

    Bob Mirams Member

    Hi everyone,
    I'm new to this, and trying to answer a long-standing family question. My grandfather (Ernest Edward Mirams) was a Corporal in 335 Company of the RASC, and was a tank transporter driver. He was stationed in North Africa from April 1942, then developed cancer in March 1944, went to hospital in Jerusalem, then was shipped back to the UK (his journey straddled D-Day), and sadly died in Bolton Infirmary in July 1944.
    He was 'mentioned in dispatches' and we have the oak leaf. I've found his name in the London Gazette on 4 April 1944, which is actually a week or two after he left 335 and went into hospital.
    I've found a reference to a Pt 2 order that I think may explain what he did to earn the oak leaf.
    It's hand-written on his B200 form 'PIIO 3518/1/44/GHQ MEF XList'.
    I had my cousin visit the National Archive, and photograph the War Diaries for 335 Company for 1943 and 1944, but there's no mention of anything that we think is relevant.
    Can anyone help me find this specific order?
    I've done some googling and feel like I've hit a brick wall.
  2. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Welcome aboard. Others may come along and help. Always apply for his Service Record, even if the turnaround is reported as a year plus now. See: Request records of deceased service personnel Upload the records here once you've obtained them and then the forum can get to work on them. Please do not pay for any site on the internet who promise you his service records they will not have them, and you would have wasted your money. PM follows with more.
    Bob Mirams likes this.
  3. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    I doubt you will find any surviving unit Part II Orders anywhere. They will have been destroyed a long while ago.

    You my find mention of his award in the unit war diary at U.K. National Archives.

    It is quite rare to find a citation for a MID.


    OP mentions he has a AF B200 which is part of the usual service record package from MOD.

    Bob Mirams and CL1 like this.
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Service Number: T/214382
    Regiment & Unit/Ship
    Royal Army Service Corps

    Date of Death
    Died 11 July 1944

    Age 38 years old

    Buried or commemorated at

    Service Plot Grave 1.

    United Kingdom

    • Country of ServiceUnited Kingdom
    • AwardsMentioned in Despatches
    • Additional InfoSon of Ernest Charles and Alice Mirams; husband of Grace Edith Mirams, of Sutton, Surrey.
    • E. E. Mirams (unknown-1944) - Find a Grave...
  5. Bob Mirams

    Bob Mirams Member

    Hi David,

    Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! My aunt got this ball rolling a while ago, and I'm just trying to nudge it down the pitch a bit further! She's sent me a number of scanned documents that I believe are from his Service Record - I've just worked out how to insert one of them here. It looks like CL1 has got cracking really fast!

    You can see the reference to Mentioned in Despatches, and the Pt 2 order number in the second image.



    Attached Files:

    CL1 likes this.
  6. Bob Mirams

    Bob Mirams Member

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for the quick response! Yes I think we have his service record package (my aunt must have applied for it a while ago). That's a shame about the Pt II orders being destroyed. I sent my cousin to the National Archives (I'm in NZ), and she very diligently photographed all the unit's War Diaries for 1943 and 1944. Unfortunately there's no reference to anything that I think could have related to any gallantry (though there was an amusing entry about a dance they organised that was 'an utter failure' because the WAAF's didn't get involved!).

    I have found the RLC Archive website - Welcome to the RLC Digital Archive - RLC Digital Archive. His name does come up in a couple of searches, but I recall they were after his service - I suspect one might be his obituary, because it's dated July 1944.

    If by some miracle the Pt II Order does still exist, do you have any ideas where it might be?


  7. Bob Mirams

    Bob Mirams Member

    Hi CL1,

    Thanks for finding and posting that - I had got some of those details, and a photo of the grave from when my Mum and Dad visited a few years ago, but not that photo.

    I appreciate you taking the time to help!


    CL1 and 4jonboy like this.
  8. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member


    In all the years I’ve been on the forum I don’t recall anyone posting details of a complete run of a UK unit Part II orders.

    I’ve seen an odd one within a Scots Guards service file on findmypast but not a full run.

  9. Bob Mirams

    Bob Mirams Member

    Hi Steve,

    That's a shame. Oh well, it was a long time ago, and I guess I can't expect anyone to maintain a few warehouses full of documents on the offchance I might wander along 80 years later asking to read one! I'll see what I find in the RLC Archive...

    The only other thing I wondered was whether any of the senior officers might have written a memoir? I know the CO of the company was a Major CJS Piper MBE, and I've found his recommendation for his MBE (countersigned by Montgomery), but how can I find out the names of the other senior staff to find out if any of them may have written anything?


    CL1 likes this.
  10. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Unit officers are usually listed in the War Diary/ appendices/field returns.

    CL1 likes this.
  11. klambie

    klambie Senior Member

    I research Canadians and many Pt II Orders are preserved here. Based on their practice, I think it very unlikely you would find any details, it's just the 'announcement' of the award.
    CL1 likes this.
  12. hutt

    hutt Member

    His name, Mirams E.E Cpl, is also commemorated in the roll of honour at the back (Page 690) of the official RASC history for 1939 - 1945.
  13. Bob Mirams

    Bob Mirams Member

    Hi hutt,

    I didn't know such a thing existed! I've found the other thread on this site about it, and I see you found a copy.

    I've really only recently started digging into this area, and one question I have is how big was the RASC during the war? You've obviously managed to find his name in the book, but I'm just wondering whether there's much about his unit? I'm a bit mystified that on his record form, he was assigned to 335 Coy in 1940, but I can't find any war diaries at the National Archive prior to 1943. However, January 1943's diary says they had their designation changed from 4 Company to 335 Company. So now I've found 4 Company Tank Transporter war diaries at the NA, from Sep - Dec 41, Jan - Mar 42, Apr - Dec 42. I believe they were sent to the Middle East in April 1942, so that would explain the break in the diary. However, I'm not clear why I can't find anything about 4 Company prior to September 41, nor why I can't find anything about 335 Company from when he joined in July/August 1940.

    Is there anything in the book that might cover those periods?

    Any ideas where I might be able to get a copy?


  14. hutt

    hutt Member

    Hi Bob
    The book was quite a find for me and I think it may have been a thread on this site that indicated there was a comprehensive history and I probably Googled it from there. It still looks to be available from a number of specialist retailers but prices seem to vary (currently) from £95 to several 100s. I think I paid about £70 but as my father was in the RASC, it was the least I could do. Mine was purchased from Abe Books online.
    It gives a good background to the run up to WW2 and then an overview of each of the campaigns the British Army was involved in and how specifically the RASC contributed. It also includes short narratives of 'example' units of which 534 Coy is representative of a Tank Transporter Coy operating in Algeria. I've only been able to skip read it to date but at some point I'll sit down to read it fully from end to end so I can't say if it has any specific reference to 335 Coy and I suspect it won't.
    I did have a look to see if I could find any earlier diaries for the '4 Coy' and will have another search to make sure I've not missed anything that fits with the date narrative in his record. I do know my fathers unit was renumbered / renamed in Spring 43 but there was a period before first getting to Kew when I couldn't understand why his letter addresses had changed.
    Regarding the size of the RASC, I don't think I have seen a figure but recall that perhaps it was the largest single 'part' of the army as it supplied everyone else (plus itself)!
  15. Bruneval

    Bruneval Well-Known Member

    Hi Bob,

    I have attached a Military Medal citation for a Driver from 335 Tank Transporter Company which will give you an idea of what your grandfather experienced.



    Attached Files:

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