Air Gunner positions Wellington 1c

Discussion in 'The War In The Air' started by vac, Dec 28, 2021.

  1. vac

    vac Active Member

    Ancestry has a transcription of the Index to Allied Airmen Roll of Honour 1939-1945. Searching for info about my uncle who was a Sergeant Air Gunner I found him on the list. Under "Role or Trade" it states "Agent" -- presumably a mis-transcription which should be "AG-ent" or something similar indicating his gunnery position? Does anyone know what "ent" would be; something something turret possibly?

    Also did aircrew in addition to pilots maintain flying logs. If so what would have happened to them when a crewman was killed.
     
  2. RAFCommands

    RAFCommands Senior Member

    Ag is air gunner - the Agent is just computer generated rubbish in an attempt by the site to add value.

    If this is a true representation of his trade then he was most likely Rear Gunner, If his trade description was WOp/AG then as a dual trained wireless operator/air gunner he could either man guns or the wireless set during flight and and swap between these roles as required for rest or casualty replacement.

    Yes all aircrew maintained flying log books.

    When posted missing the log books would be catalogued along with service and personal belongings.

    When and if NoK claimed belongings during war the log books were not handed over.

    Post War there was a sizeable attempt through press to encourage relatives to claim the logbooks.

    Those not claimed were sifted for historic significance and given to TNA - the remaining were destroyed on the instructions of the parliament of the day,

    Aircrew logbooks | Collections | Research | RAF Museum

    Ross
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
    vac likes this.
  3. vac

    vac Active Member

    Hi Ross, thank-you for your response -- informative and really helpful.
    Cheers
    Val
     
  4. Observer39

    Observer39 Active Member

    Further to Ross's useful post & link: 6500 feet of shelfspace equates to near 104,000 RAF Flying Log Books - a large number, though far less than aircrew no's WW2.

    In the past there's sometimes been harsh criticism about post-war destruction of remaining Log Books. A good record of the repeated, extensive efforts at return may assist.

    From RAF World War II Operational and Flying Accident Casualty Files in the National Archives: Exploring the Contents, Mary Hudson (Air World/Pen & Sword 2020) here is chapter and verse from Ch17, on Flying Log Book retention/return policy, and on action to return Log Books to surviving ex-aircrew and casualties families, pre-war to post-war.

    "Among the official documents issued to the casualty which
    were set aside by the Effects Officer to be retained by the RAF
    were Flying Log Books (RAF Forms 414 and 1767).

    Before the Second World War flying log books of deceased
    officers and airmen were forwarded to next of kin when no
    longer required for official purposes such as investigations
    into aircraft accidents. However, when the war started this
    practice was discontinued for the 'duration of hostilities'.
    The flying log books of missing or deceased aircrew were
    instead to be sent from home units to the RAF Central
    Depository at Colnbrook where they were recorded and kept
    in safe custody. Overseas units sent the flying log book to
    their command headquarters for safe-keeping. A similar
    practice was observed for the flying log books of personnel
    who were declared to be prisoners of war.

    In January 1946 authority was given by the Air Ministry
    for the release of the Flying Log Books of air crew who had
    either been discharged or released from the service, who had
    died, or who [had] been withdrawn from air crew duties. Next of
    kin of deceased air crew were invited to apply for the Flying
    Log Book through newspaper advertisements and by radio
    announcements. Following this some next of kin wrote to the
    Casualty Branch about the Flying Log Books of their relatives
    and these letters, and the responses to them, were
    placed on the on the relevant Casualty Files. Unclaimed
    Flying Log Books were kept at the RAF Central Depository
    until 1960 when it was again publically [sic] advertised that
    Flying Log Books still held by the RAF could be claimed by
    air crew or, where deceased, their next-of-kin.

    Of those still left unclaimed after this second announcement
    a small number were preserved as examples and are now held at the
    National Archives in the AIR 4 Series. The remainder were
    destroyed in late 1960."
    Ms Hudson's book is a comprehensive guide to the RAF & MRES etc practices and recording of RAF casualties. Available in print and ebook form via eg www.Booktopia.com.au also listed new & used at www.bookfinder.com - or check national libraries/interlibrary loan in your country.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
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  5. Observer39

    Observer39 Active Member

    redundant
     
  6. dp_burke

    dp_burke Junior Member

    I've brought this 'agent' issue to their notice on ancestry so hopefully they can fix the 16000+ instances that are likely in error. Sobering figure however.
     
  7. dp_burke

    dp_burke Junior Member

    Glad to report the 16000 agents on that database now only number..... 17!

    The error has been fixed.

    Also I got them to fix 'Rm' to read Runnymede Memorial, Surrey for some 18,000 names
     

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