Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Steve johnson2, Mar 8, 2020.
Hi, does anyone know what sort of armoured car is in the background, is it a Guy?
A Humber Light Reconnaissance Car.
Humber Light Reconnaissance Car - Wikipedia
Thanks, I wasn’t sure because most pictures show a large grille at the rear, which mark would it be?
I am trying to get as much info on this photo as I can, I am lucky enough to own the motorbike in the photo
Welcome to forum.
Can you post some pictures of your bike?
That’s my bike in the photo, Oct 27th 1944 at the liberation of Tilburg
Or did you mean a photo of it now?
Hard to tell a Mk.II from a III/IIIa at that angle. If it appears in any other shots the front fenders should give a clue. Only certainty is it's not a Mk.I.
Rear grille not really a thing on Humbers - maybe thinking of the Morris LRC?
Anyway. Lovely that you have such a clear contemporary shot of your bike!
Not sure that the Humber LRC had a grille at the rear, are you thinking about the Humber Armoured car which certainly did? Humber Armoured Car - Wikipedia
As for which mark of Humber LRC is in the photo, I'm not sure. There were limited visual differences but, according to the Osprey book the Mk IIIA had the rear box removed and was replaced by the spare wheel - so likely a Mk III?
ps. for others if they haven't see the coloured version:
15th Scottish division at tilberg
Thanks all for the replies
It was the 15th Scottish division that liberated Tilburg
I have been told the 87 on the dr helmet would be the tac sign which relates to the 46th highland brigade
I am not sure how or if I can get any further, after trying the 15th scottish war diaries they said to try on this site
Are these what you are after??
That's great. I'd enjoy hearing how you came to own it and seeing how it looks today.
hi, this is the bike as released by the army in 1968, it was bought by a chap who wanted a Bedford army truck. He didn’t know there were two bikes in the back so when he got home they were thrown in a shed and left.
After about 30 years the bikes were sold an mine was restored to the condition it is now.
Hi all ,
Interesting diagram showing stowage for a Humber lrc mk2 .
Thanks for posting that Humber LRC diagram. I went on a bit of a quest a few years back now, looking for stowage diagrams of various British wheeled AFVs and LRCs as frankly I had scant knowledge of any of them at the time. Bovington has various packs for the Humber (LRCs, Armd cars and Scout cars), but while those for the LRC include the stowage diagram they omit the key! I did ask about on the net I recall, for assistance in filling in the blanks, but answer came there none. I eventually happened across a lot on Ebay from someone selling the Driver's Handbook for the Humber Mark III, who had scanned segments of the same type of stowage diagram; not a full shot of the page but enough to piece together the key to go with the Mark III Bovington docs.
The 15th Recce Regiment of the 15th Scottish Division used Humber Light Recce Cars and absolutely hated them, their commanding officer describing them as "ridiculous". Their war diary for 1944 is on this site here:
15 Recce War Diary – 1944
War diary for 1945 here:
15 Recce War Diary - 1945
These include the appendices which give their views on their equipment, which are not on the 15th Scottish Division website (so well done Recce_Mitch).
I must admit that I have never quite understood the light recce car, possibly because there was no equivalent for it in US or other armies. I know what a scout car was, I know what an armored car was, but an LRC? To my eye, it just looks like a scout car with a silly little turret on top. Was it just that they had all these cheap Beaverettes around from the 1940-41 emergency and a production line for them so the army just decided to try and fit them into an active role?
Oh, and what did 15 Recce specifically object to about the Humber?
As the LRC was used by the fledgling Recce Corps I did wonder whether there was a conscious decision to not call it a scout car or armoured car, as a means of keeping it beyond the RAC's input on AFVs proper? Just a suggestion, and I can't claim to have seen anything to base it on. As I recall the US Army named some vehicles 'combat cars' in the interwar years as the using units were not allowed to have tanks (even though the combat cars concerned were tracked and armoured)? The LRCs were all classified as "B" vehicles so were probably of no interest to the RAC until they absorbed the Recce Corps. I think there's a Peter Brown piece somewhere on warwheels.net that includes an RAC description of the Humber III LRC, which was penned decidedly late in proceedings.
There was a slight obsession in British military circles pre-war with 'Crossing fire swept ground'. Based on widespread experience from the First World War ensuring non specialist troops can move around behind the frontline when not specifically being targetted got a lot of attention. Avoiding casualties amongst those involved in command, information gathering, communication, resupply, casualty evacuation and such was important. Lightly armoured, easily maintained and not requiring lots of training and 'doctrine' - and not an AFV - the LRC filled a lot of these perceived roles. The concept is still valid - see footage from Ukraine - however can be mis-applied - see Snatch Land Rover.
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