Were there any methods used by both sides to rescue downed pilots that bailled out over the English Channel. I read some where that the Germans placed small crafts in the channel, on the surface they looked like a square raft with a hatch in the middle of it, inside the thing looked like a bunk section of a U-Boat. Does anyone have anything?
The germans used seaplanes painted with red cross colours to pick up their downed pilots, after the British found out about this, the orders were sent out to shot them down, which caused some controversy at the time The British rescue arrangements were found to be very inadequate during the battle, they wern't expecting to be fighting in the summer of 1940 over the channel, sometimes it was more luck than judgement that piots were picked up, it was only after the battle that things picked up, and there was more resource's allocated to rescuing downed pilots
Originally posted by walker1914@May 21 2004, 08:33 AM The germans used seaplanes painted with red cross colours to pick up their downed pilots, after the British found out about this, the orders were sent out to shot them down, which caused some controversy at the time The British rescue arrangements were found to be very inadequate during the battle, they wern't expecting to be fighting in the summer of 1940 over the channel, sometimes it was more luck than judgement that piots were picked up, it was only after the battle that things picked up, and there was more resource's allocated to rescuing downed pilots The RAF used small boats to pick up fliers downed at sea. These "RAF Air Sea Rescue" launches were fighting craft, and were prepared to "mix it" with the Germans in order to to rescue aircrew. I have a picture of a relative, who served on one of these boats, manning some sort of machine gun. I am not sure when this rescue service was established, but my relative was in it from c1942.
Originally posted by BeppoSapone@May 22 2004, 12:38 AM I have a picture of a relative, who served on one of these boats, manning some sort of machine gun. I am not sure when this rescue service was established, but my relative was in it from c1942. My last post got me thinking, so I did a "Google" search and came up with this history of RAF Air Sea Rescue: http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/sar601.html
Originally posted by walker1914@May 21 2004, 01:33 PM The germans used seaplanes painted with red cross colours to pick up their downed pilots, after the British found out about this, the orders were sent out to shot them down, which caused some controversy at the time There is an Excellent Photo of one of these German Rescue Craft forced down by the RAF during the BoB & subsequently captured;in I believe one of Chaz Bowyers splendid BoB Books
I believe the RAF had a "club" for pilots shot down over the channel and saved, IIRC it was the Water Rats or similiar. Ali
Originally posted by Ali Hollington@May 25 2004, 04:19 AM I believe the RAF had a "club" for pilots shot down over the channel and saved, IIRC it was the Water Rats or similiar. Ali The "Goldfish Club" I think. And wasn't there also a "Caterpiller Club" for those whse lives had been saved by parachute?
Originally posted by Danmark@May 21 2004, 12:51 AM I read some where that the Germans placed small crafts in the channel, on the surface they looked like a square raft with a hatch in the middle of it, inside the thing looked like a bunk section of a U-Boat. I saw an illustration of this craft a few years ago. I can't remember where. I wasn't sure if they were actually used or not since I haven't seen any photos. It was like a big oil drum with a conning tower. Inside was bunks and blankets and food. etc. I'll try and remember where I saw it. Cheers Adam
Originally posted by BeppoSapone+May 25 2004, 09:55 AM-->(BeppoSapone @ May 25 2004, 09:55 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Ali Hollington@May 25 2004, 04:19 AM I believe the RAF had a "club" for pilots shot down over the channel and saved, IIRC it was the Water Rats or similiar. Ali The "Goldfish Club" I think. And wasn't there also a "Caterpiller Club" for those whose lives had been saved by parachute? [/b]The Caterpillar Club was indeed for those who used "Silk"! the badge was a Gold Caterpillar worn above Medal Ribbons The Goldfish Club was for those who had come "Down in the Drink" a small woven{Unofficial} Badge was worn,a Goldfish with I think Bars below to denote the number of times you'd got wet!
Originally posted by Ali Hollington@May 25 2004, 09:19 AM I believe the RAF had a "club" for pilots shot down over the channel and saved, IIRC it was the Water Rats or similiar. Ali The Grand Order of Water Rats is a Show Biz Charity for supporting Artists who are on Hard Times,see above for name of RAF "Club"
Originally posted by Danmark@May 21 2004, 12:51 AM Were there any methods used by both sides to rescue downed pilots that bailled out over the English Channel. I read some where that the Germans placed small crafts in the channel, on the surface they looked like a square raft with a hatch in the middle of it, inside the thing looked like a bunk section of a U-Boat. Does anyone have anything? I believe that large tethered Bouys with simple accomodation & survival kit were used in the channel,I remember seeing their use in a Film/Documentary some time ago?
Things obviously developed as the war went on. In the new book by Stephen Darlow, D-Day Bombers: The Veterans' Story (Grub Street 2004, £20), there is an account of an American crew who ditched in the sea and managed to get into their liferaft, having sent their position by radio. Within the hour, an RAF Wellington arrived and dropped a motor launch by parachute. They got in it and tied their liferaft to the stern, thus causing the rope to foul the propeller of one of the two engines. They were later picked up by a larger vessel, which tied the launch to the stern, thus causing the rope to foul one of the two propellers. As they say, truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
Originally posted by Sgt Pilot Bernard Henson RAFVR+May 30 2004, 05:23 AM-->(Sgt Pilot Bernard Henson RAFVR @ May 30 2004, 05:23 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> Originally posted by BeppoSapone@May 25 2004, 09:55 AM <!--QuoteBegin-Ali Hollington@May 25 2004, 04:19 AM I believe the RAF had a "club" for pilots shot down over the channel and saved, IIRC it was the Water Rats or similiar. Ali The "Goldfish Club" I think. And wasn't there also a "Caterpiller Club" for those whose lives had been saved by parachute? The Caterpillar Club was indeed for those who used "Silk"! the badge was a Gold Caterpillar worn above Medal Ribbons The Goldfish Club was for those who had come "Down in the Drink" a small woven{Unofficial} Badge was worn,a Goldfish with I think Bars below to denote the number of times you'd got wet! [/b]There was also a club for aircrew who had walked back to Allied lines in North Africa 1941-1942. The badge was a boot - or a winged boot? - worn as the others. This is illustrated in one of the magazines/books of the time. Probably the same one that someone posted the Civil Defence helmets from.
The "Winged Boot" Badge was I believe in 'The War Illustrated',But may also be in the "Second World War "Volumes that the CD Helmets came from,i'll have to have another look!with regard to my earlier posting ,having delved into my library I have found the picture mentioned of the German Red Cross Aircraft,it was a Heinkel 59,Seaplane & this particular one was forced down by the RAF on July 9th 1940,& is pictured on Deal Beach.The use of Red Cross Aircraft by the German Luftwaffe was banned in the War Zones by the British Government,as earlier "Rescues" had had ulterior motives
Seen a SA airman wearing a 'Winged Boot' badge in a book; as stated for making it back to Allied lines on foot after being brought down. 'Britain's Wonderful Fighting Forces' , published c.1940, by Capt E Hawkes has an article, photographs and illustrations of these moored lifeboats; seen copies on ebay on occasion and they don't go for that much money. Richard
Originally posted by BeppoSapone+May 22 2004, 05:43 AM-->(BeppoSapone @ May 22 2004, 05:43 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-BeppoSapone@May 22 2004, 12:38 AM I have a picture of a relative, who served on one of these boats, manning some sort of machine gun. I am not sure when this rescue service was established, but my relative was in it from c1942. [/b]I used to be the East Anglian Branch Secretary of the ASR Rescue and Marine Craft Services Club. Most of the members were the wartime boys and the stories they told were fantastic! The RAF used what were called “Cuckoos” which were large tethered buoys containing basic survival equipment. The were based upon the german "lonster pots". They used by both sides during the Battle. One still exists and is located at the Scottish Maritime Museum along with an ASR Pinnace. The last time I saw the pinnace was a few years ago and she was in a state that would break a coxswains heart and a crews back! Both ASR and Marine craft were used during the Dunkirk evacuation. There is the famous story of Cpl (later Grp Capt) Flowers. He was in charge of the RAF detachment and it was visited by a Naval Brass hat, who asked who was in charge of the boats? Cpl Flowers turned round and said “I am Sir”! At this the NSO turned bright red and walked off! But during the battle of Britain the boats turned out to rescue downed pilots, I do not have the exact figure of pilots recovered during the battle but by the end of the war, some 1600 aircrew had been rescued around British waters. During the siege of Malta, the ASR pinnace still operated under extreme conditions to recover downed crews and was responsible for saving 160 down crew during the siege. Ted Shute who was a Coxswain on the Malta Launch during the siege, told me of how, the unit had found a whaler floating at sea and salvaged it. They rigged up a sail and crew members could use it for some R and R! Ted and others took it out one day to sail around the island. As they were going round; they noticed something in the distance and so decided to investigate it. It was a FAA pilot in his dinghy! The picked him up and took him back to the Kalafrania base. The film “The Malta Story2 was on TV recently and in it talked about the spy who was caught. The reality was he was picked up by the Malta launch because the spy had drifted close to a cliff and the RAF were the only people who could get that close the cliff. One of the things which proved useful from the Battle of Britain was the fact that if you were burnt and bailed out over the channel, you stood a great chance of survival because of the salt water. The idea became standard in the treatment of burns. The ASR boats were also used in the first commando raid of the war as they were the only ones with a shallow enough draft. Ironically, five coxswains and five fitters were used in the Falklands because the Navy did not have enough people to crew the landing craft! The boats also provided cover for Dieppe, scilly, anzio and D-Day. People may have seen “The Sea Shall Not Have Them” that was based upon the real rescue of a downed pilot who drifted into the mouth of the Maas River. In the real incident the HSL was attacked by three E-boats but managed to escape. When I was at 1100 MCU Alness, Reg Johnston the WO adjutant had been a deck hand on HSL in the real incident. I will post photos of the various boats used by the ASR/MCS.
Originally posted by BeppoSapone+May 22 2004, 05:43 AM-->(BeppoSapone @ May 22 2004, 05:43 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-BeppoSapone@May 22 2004, 12:38 AM I have a picture of a relative, who served on one of these boats, manning some sort of machine gun. I am not sure when this rescue service was established, but my relative was in it from c1942. [/b]This is a photo showing the armament of the "Whale type Boat"
ASR Website This is full of stuff about ASR?MCS. it has photos of some of the boats I was on! :ph34r:
Originally posted by morse1001@Jun 28 2004, 12:02 AM One of the things which proved useful from the Battle of Britain was the fact that if you were burnt and bailed out over the channel, you stood a great chance of survival because of the salt water. The idea became standard in the treatment of burns. McIndoe,Pioneering Plastic Surgeon of "Guinea ~ Pigs" Fame{Another Exclusive Badge,that Im sure all recipients would have rather not earned}Noticed that the recovery rate for Aircrew rescued from the sea was quicker that those who had landed on dry Land,consequently Saline Baths were installed & used on the Severe Burns,reducing lividity & hurrying the Healing process,one reason apart from the Salt must have been that instant immersion in Cold Sea Water would have had a Cooling effect on the Burn,as is recommended today with burns,reducing the effect of continuing heat,which would not have been reduced if landing on land~Burns continue to destroy tissue after the initial burning as the heat is retained,so cooling is an urgent & important factor in all Burn treatment,especially when dealing with the intense temperatures of Overheated Burning Oil & Fuel
Originally posted by Sgt Pilot Bernard Henson RAFVR+Jun 28 2004, 02:37 PM-->(Sgt Pilot Bernard Henson RAFVR @ Jun 28 2004, 02:37 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-morse1001@Jun 28 2004, 12:02 AM One of the things which proved useful from the Battle of Britain was the fact that if you were burnt and bailed out over the channel, you stood a great chance of survival because of the salt water. The idea became standard in the treatment of burns. McIndoe,Pioneering Plastic Surgeon of "Guinea ~ Pigs" Fame{Another Exclusive Badge,that Im sure all recipients would have rather not earned}Noticed that the recovery rate for Aircrew rescued from the sea was quicker that those who had landed on dry Land,consequently Saline Baths were installed & used on the Severe Burns,reducing lividity & hurrying the Healing process,one reason apart from the Salt must have been that instant immersion in Cold Sea Water would have had a Cooling effect on the Burn,as is recommended today with burns,reducing the effect of continuing heat,which would not have been reduced if landing on land~Burns continue to destroy tissue after the initial burning as the heat is retained,so cooling is an urgent & important factor in all Burn treatment,especially when dealing with the intense temperatures of Overheated Burning Oil & Fuel [/b]saline baths are still used to help clean out wounds. I take your point about the cooling effect of the water.
