British Pow Losses On Italian Ship - Ariosto.

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by Ralph B, Oct 31, 2005.

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  1. Spurius

    Spurius Junior Member

    Hi Verrieres, Can you tell me how much the medal went for?
    Brian has been really helpful to me too, as I lost an Uncle on the Scillin. If you know of any more information regarding this ship then I would be pleased to be contacted.
    Spurius
     
    Spurius, Jul 26, 2009
    #21
  2. Verrieres

    Verrieres no longer a member

    Hi,
    Sorry Brian is the expert on this one everything I`ve read or been told can be traced back to Brian.
    I can chip in with the odd bits and pieces starting with those medals.They were sold by Dix Noonan and Web for £1100 in 2001 (4th July) Offered for re-sale by Corbitts of Newcastle-upon Tyne they sold for (Exactly their minimum start price) £1700 (not to me either!) A more complete citation reads as follows;-

    M.M. London Gazette 29 November 1940.

    “On the night of 29th June, 1940, this N.C.O. was in command of a Light tank attached to “B” Squadron, 7th Hussars for a night attack on Capuzzo. He used his searchlight on the Fort at close range enabling the other tanks to obtain observation until ordered to put it out. Owing to a failure of the inter-communication in the tank the driver failed to retire with the rest of the tanks when ordered to do so. The tank was struck by a small shell knocking out the driver and dazing the gunner. The suspension of the tank was also damaged by the shock. Cpl Edmonds managed to revive the driver and ordered him to continue to drive on, urging his gunner to keep firing on the guns which were on three sides of him. He succeeded in penetrating the defences, and when almost clear the tank failed to negotiate the barbed wire defences on the opposite side. Although being shown up by Verey lights and the Fort searchlight, he dismounted and cut through the wire with wirecutters and succeeded in making a path through which the tank could pass. Later he managed to rejoin his own Squadron which was acting as rearguard, and remained on patrol under fire until the Squadron returned to laager. In addition to the above he has always shown zeal and dash beyond the normal when engaged on operations in the Capuzzo area.”
    If I can help in the future I certainly will but at this point in time this is all I can offer .Sorry:(

    Verrieres

    PS You might want to take a look at this http://www.mackz.net/olneywarmemorial39-45/owm39-45_2_AndrewsVE_200.pdf
     
    Verrieres, Jul 26, 2009
    #22
  3. Jacqueline Lamberton

    Jacqueline Lamberton Junior Member

    Hi Ralph
    I am trying to piece together my adoptive, late Father's experiences during WW2 as he rarely spoke about the war. He went missing for many months....he was in the REME in the 8th. Army and was at El Alamein and I think Torbruk. He had recurring malaria for the rest of his life, which he said he contracted in Sicily. Recently I have wondered if he was a POW in Sicily. Would welcome any advice on where to research. On a page in his pay book, he has written Sept 1943.
     
    Jacqueline Lamberton, Nov 9, 2009
    #23
  4. HUSSARMAN

    HUSSARMAN Junior Member

    I have a 11th Hussar who was killed by drowning(W.3040) after the Ship he was on as POW was sunk in the 'Med' on the 14th-15th Feb 1942, can anyone help with a 'poss' Ship he may have been on please?

    Many Thanks
    David.
    husrollho@yahoo.co.uk
     
    HUSSARMAN, Nov 25, 2009
    #24
  5. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    The ship was the Ariosto. Sunk by the P38 which unfortuately didn't finish the Patrol so we have no account of the attack.

    The ship was earlier attacked by torpedo carrying Aircraft from Malta and I feel without any success.

    Over the past 17yrs I have been in contact with three of the survivors,sadly there is only one 90yr old still with us.

    Brian
     
    ADM199, Nov 25, 2009
    #25
  6. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    The man you are refering to would be Tpr.H.Crampton 319500, but there are others who are from the 10th that died on the ship.

    Tpr.J.R.Hall 7911764
    Sgt.A.Wemyss 405524
    Sgt.P.W.Wilson 542321

    Brian
     
    ADM199, Nov 25, 2009
    #26
  7. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    There is one more.

    Lt.John Benham Turner 11th Hussars was being transported to Italy with 10 other Officer P.O.W. They were aboard the Italian Submarine NARVALO on the 14th January 1943 when it was attacked and damaged by an R.A.F. Beaufort. She was then finished off by the Destroyers Pakenham and Hursley.
    8 of the 11 P.O.W. Died
     
    ADM199, Nov 25, 2009
    #27
  8. HUSSARMAN

    HUSSARMAN Junior Member

    I am looking for confirmation that a Tpr Harold Crampton : 11th Hussars (P.A.O) was on board the Ariosto, Harolds W.3040 confirms the date of the 14/15/02/1942' Killed at Sea' while POW, 'Med'.
    I am in contact with Harold's family .
    Can anyone help me with this one please?

    Regards
    David: husrollho@yahoo.co.uk
     
    HUSSARMAN, Nov 28, 2009
    #28
  9. HUSSARMAN

    HUSSARMAN Junior Member

    Many thanks Brian,
    David.
     
    HUSSARMAN, Nov 30, 2009
    #29
  10. HUSSARMAN

    HUSSARMAN Junior Member

    Any other details please as i am in contact with John's Family who would be very interested, did you know that his brother was blamed for the Ship's sinking?
    Regards
    David.
    husrollho@yahoo.co.uk
     
    HUSSARMAN, Nov 30, 2009
    #30
  11. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Any other details please as i am in contact with John's Family who would be very interested, did you know that his brother was blamed for the Ship's sinking?
    Regards
    David.
    husrollho@yahoo.co.uk


    It was a request for information regarding Johns Death which came via George Malcolmson at the Submarine Museum when I first looked into the incident.
    Can't remember who it was from originally but he was working on the Hussars Roll of Honour .

    It was from him that I heard the story regarding his Brother which is total nonsense of course.

    I never looked any further into his death but there could be information in the Logs of H.M.S. Hursley and H.M.S. Pakenham. You could also try the ORBs for 39 Sqn.

    Brian
     
    ADM199, Nov 30, 2009
    #31
  12. philswallow

    philswallow Junior Member

    There is a survivor of one of the Italian ships carrying British POWs still alive as I write. His name is Alex Franks. I am in touch with him quite often; he was a good friend of my father, Tom Swallow; both were captured at Tobruk.

    I think Alex was on the Ariosto - does that sound right, coming from Tobruk? The story of the sinking and his survival of it is pretty gripping stuff; leaping into the dark oily water, floating around, nearly being rescued by a British frigate, finally rescued by an Italian ship and imprisoned in PG70 and Stalag IVB where he met Dad. Dad did a similar trip but wasn't torpedoed. Made me realise what a fine thread my own existence hung from.
     
    philswallow, Dec 2, 2009
    #32
  13. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Merged two Ariosto threads.
    A lady has asked me to add this, which I'm more than happy to do:

    "Hello,

    My father survived the sinking of the Ariosto. I have his full description of the event, but it's too long for this form. If you are interested I can copy some of it upon request.
    Dad and the other survivors ended up weeks later at a crowded quarantine camp near Castelvetrano, then as the lone surviving Officer he was escorted on to other Italian POW camps and eventually Germany, eventually ending up at Stalag Luft 3 in 1943. Dad is a Canadian who was a Pilot Officer with the RCAF/RAF when his convoy escorted Hurricanes to Malta on the Furious in August, and he was then posted to the Western Desert, September 1941 with No. 33 Squadron at Landing Grounds such as Giarabub, LG125, Antellet, Msus. Late January 1942 Dad was shot down, crash landed and injured after making three passes at a German column near Agedabia, while on a strafing mission fellow Hurricane Fighter Pilot, Lance Wade. He and Lance had been together the better part of a year. Wade was also RAF having come up to Canada from Texas to volunteer in 1940. Lance Wade later became the top American RAF Ace.
    Lance Wade attempted an amazing act of bravery trying to save my father under full fire from the German columns, they had just strafed, but a rescue was impossible. Dad was picked up by the Germans, and amongst them he met the man who claimed Dad as his victory and signed his log. A little while later his captors halted their truck to allow Rommel, in his vehicle, pass in front of him. Earlier that day Dad and Lance had been alerted to "Brass" in the area hoping for that sort of strafing prize, but it wasn't to be.
    The Ariosto ....
    After a few weeks of hospitalization and prison camps, Dad was one of the prisoners aboard the Italian steamer Ariosto, which set out on Friday, February 13th, 1942. He notes the names of the other ships too and details on board. A quote tells on the first day "There was the roar of an aircraft up above, then a machine gun let fly from the deck. The whole action was over in two minutes, but you can be sure it seemed like an eternity to us, down in the dark. A guard pushed the tarpaulin back and said an aircraft had dropped two torpedoes at us but missed. I only slept fitfully for the rest of the night and was never so glad to see the light of day."
    On the second night, the night of February 14th, 1942 about nine-thirty PM he had fallen asleep when there was a deafening crash and a blinding flash awakened him. Of the five men immediately beside him, below in the hold covered by a fastened tarp, he was the only one thrown clear and found himself up on deck. The two other Officers (RSMs) with him were killed, making him the sole surviving Officer amongst the prisoners on board.
    You see Dad had made friends with fellow prisoners over the previous weeks in hospital and in prison camps. Two of the other prisoners he'd spent weeks with, and who were also right beside him when the torpedoes hit, were Bobby Spens (Service No: 92060) and Peter Saunders (Service No: 219004) and he says with certainty they both died instantly. He wants their story told.
    I should add, Dad was taken to Sicily on the ship that accompanied the Ariosto, the Premuda, then spent twelve days at Trapani Hospital. That part of his transit itself has it's own interests. As an Officer he had glimpses into things that the other prisoners and crew did not.
    Dad, at age 92 is having this 1961 book reprinted for the many friends and family who have asked, since it's altogether a remarkable overview and an exceptional read. I can also ask him for any particular recollections, he has a good knowledge base and his memory is still very clear.
    As far as the chapter about the Ariosto, he gives a good description of the of the boat, who some of the men were, the explosion, the ship parts staying afloat about four hours and a lot of what happened to the men and what they did during those hours. Then his further hours in the water witnessing the two parts of the ship going down and his final rescue. Dad's wristwatch still worked so he even had the timing noted.

    I hope this is of some use to you.
    Regards,
    Barb"
     
    von Poop, Dec 29, 2009
    #33
  14. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    There is a survivor of one of the Italian ships carrying British POWs still alive as I write. His name is Alex Franks. I am in touch with him quite often; he was a good friend of my father, Tom Swallow; both were captured at Tobruk.

    I think Alex was on the Ariosto - does that sound right, coming from Tobruk? The story of the sinking and his survival of it is pretty gripping stuff; leaping into the dark oily water, floating around, nearly being rescued by a British frigate, finally rescued by an Italian ship and imprisoned in PG70 and Stalag IVB where he met Dad. Dad did a similar trip but wasn't torpedoed. Made me realise what a fine thread my own existence hung from.

    Hi Phil,
    I think we met at Alrewas when you brought your Father to the Stalag 1VB Memorial tree planting.
    I was in correspondence with him for several years and managed obtain photographs of both youir Uncles Graves. Tom has been mentioned on the Forum before regarding"Flywheel" and E.T.Schurch.
    Alex Franks is a great friend of mine and yes he was on the Ariosto which sailed from Tripoli.
    At present we are planning a trip to Egypt and Lybia.
    Good to see you here.

    Brian Sims
     
    ADM199, Dec 30, 2009
    #34
  15. ADM199

    ADM199 Well-Known Member

    Hello Barb,
    Lt.Spens R.R.P. 92060 of the Norfolk Yeomanry and 2/Lt.P.J.Saunders 219004 did die on the Ariosto.
    There are five Warrant Officers who also died on the ship:
    Baker H.2191976 Ryl.Eng. Endean A. M.M & Bar 6911371 Rifle Brigade.
    Murray H.A.1396426 11 R.H.A. Rooney J.H.P.6911371 Rifle Brigade and Smith J.E.6844233 K.R.R.C.

    The Ariosto was carrying 300 Prisoners and the Atlas 150 when they sailed on the 13th. They were accompanied by Destroyer Premuda and Torpedo Boat Polluce.
    There is a good account of the Aircraft attack on the Ariosto in "Night Strike from Malta" by Kenneth Poolman.

    As you say the Ariosto didn't sink straight away,but a larger part of the Forward section broke away from the Stern and sank. The Stern stayed afloat for sometime after.
    Just over 11yrs ago I was over the wreck which is approx.11mls East of Cape Afrique;Mahdia.

    The story of the sinking is told in "Non Combattant" an unpublished Book that is in the I.W.M. The story was originally written by Alex Franks in several exercise books. His friend Tom Swallow then took the story and edited it into Book Form. The front Cover is illustrated by a former St.1VB Artist Arthur Pill.

    Brian
     
    ADM199, Dec 30, 2009
    #35
  16. Oggie2620

    Oggie2620 Senior Member

    I have recently spoken to Alex Franks. He is in the process of publishing a book called A Rat Called Alex all about his experience. Will let you know when it finally comes out...He is still sprightly and goes to the RAF Museum at Cosford every week along with some other veterans to talk about WW2!
     
    Oggie2620, Sep 19, 2012
    #36
  17. Tony Caseley

    Tony Caseley New Member

    I am new to this forum and not familiar with old posts replies. However, My father now 91
    who liives with me was a british pow and was on board the Ariosto when she sank. If anyone is still interested please contact me. Interestingly we now live in Italy perhaps following circumstances from that incident. Tony C
     
    Tony Caseley, Jun 7, 2013
    #37
  18. Skoyen89

    Skoyen89 Senior Member

    There is quite a lot of documentation on the Ariosto/Ariostol in WO361/133 at Kew. It concerns the Casualty Branch trying to establish who was on the ship as a POW and was killed. I have copied it (the part concerning this ship). If you are looking for a person who may have been killed on it then it may be one of the best sources.
     
    Skoyen89, Dec 22, 2023
    #38
  19. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Barb's dad, Don Edy, had his experiences published, under the title 'Goon in the Block'.

    ** Web source for the book Goon In The Block by Don Edy **

    He was a Hurricane pilot in No. 33 Squadron, shot down during a strafing mission on the Via Balbia.

    P.38 was lost on the same patrol a week later to Italian torpedo boats, at least one of which, RN Circe, was equipped with German sonar and depth charges. Lt. Commander Palmas was on a roll, having sunk HM/Sub Tempest a few days before P.38. P.38 never stood a chance against the very aggressive action taken by Palmas I believe.

    http://rommelsriposte.com/2010/05/22/sinking-of-hm-submarine-p-38-23-february-1942/

    http://rommelsriposte.com/2020/02/13/loss-of-hm-s-m-tempest-13-feb-1942/

    Ariosto was the only sinking achieved by P.38 in her career.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
    Andreas, Dec 22, 2023
    #39
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