Camp 5 Gavi Italy

Discussion in 'Prisoners of War' started by joy, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Jim,

    Reading all this again, and seeing that Gordon Horner was in both Gavi and Chieti, I am puzzled about his moves.

    At the time of the compilation of WO 392/21 he was in Chieti. Chieti, according to document description on the National Archives' website, was his last known camp. So at what point was he beng held in Gavi? And why was he then sent to Chieti?

    What did he do at the armistice?

    Vitellino
     
  2. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Dear V, profuse apologies for late response, old chap power nap (yes, ok, I fell asleep)

    If Gordon Horner compiled his book in chronological order as best he could remember (which hopefully as published in1946 was mostly accurate datewise) then his movements (after capture in North Africa) were;

    By ship to Toranto, then to Tuturano transit camp, then Gavi, followed by Chieti, Sulmona (by train post-armistice on 24th September) brief stay there then train to Germany arriving at Moosburg, where he left on 8th December 1943 for Oflag 8F Marisch Trubau in Czechoslovakia, moving from there to Oflag 79 (Waggum near Brunswick) where he was confined till liberation on or about 12th April 1945.

    What he did at the armistice in Italy was stay put. From his book; "The SBO decided "We stay put and wait for the advancing Allies"" (the blessed stay put order yet again)

    21st September German fallschirmjager arrived and took over Chieti, and then it was short shrift for the train out of Italy via Sulmona on 24th September.

    And, only a guess on my part, that as he was initially sent to Gavi ("a bad boys camp" and "our party of fifty or so, got in only because the less exclusive camps were crammed full, due to the increased flow of prisoners from Libya") shortly after arrival in Italy that as soon as Italian logistics allowed he (they?) were moved on to Chieti. All my conjecture so please put me straight if you think my reasoning is awry (I would not be offended, ever!).

    I'll post the appropriate pages up for all the camps he was held in at sometime (but no more tonight as my eyes are shot to bits form scanning, cropping, re-sizing the pages posted in the three threads today).

    Again, sorry for the tardy reply, I hope at least that the above info helps a bit.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.

    P.S. I did post re Chieti earlier this evening in a new thread here:

    Chieti PG 21
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  3. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Now it all makes sense.

    I will now have a look at the Chieti thread. I will check on its opening date on the www.campifascisti.it website and post something.

    Ps: We are all allowed a nap.

    Edited:
    Chieti opened in June 1942, Gavi the previous year.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  4. John S Adams

    John S Adams Member

     
  5. John S Adams

    John S Adams Member

    Dear David Tooes

    Whilst looking through some family heirlooms here at home in Reading, UK, we came across an
    old French 100franc banknote which has writing on it in ink by your father, Jack Stanley Ernest
    Tooes! The writing mentions HMS sub Oswald, his years as a POW and comments about the
    monstrosity of war. All the information you have given about him on this website is fascinating.
    Patricia’s father, Kenneth Howard was also in the RN in WW2 serving on corvettes and on
    Arctic Convoys. We wonder if they knew each other. Anyway if you like I’ll forward you a photo
    of the banknote. Also I am trying without success to find a copy of An Able Seamans War. Any
    ideas? Thanks and Best Wishes - John Adams, Patricia (nee Howard) Sparkes.
     
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  6. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    David doesn't seem to have picked this up - I suggest you send him a private message,
    Vitellino
     
  7. John S Adams

    John S Adams Member

    Hello Vitellino - Thanks for response. I’d certainly like to contact David Tooes, but I do not have any direct contact details (e-Mail?) - can you help me to contact him. Thanks and regards, John
     
  8. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Go back to page 1 on this thread and look for Dave Tooes' atavar. It looks like yours except that the name is different.

    Click on his name and a black box with white writing will appear.

    Click on Start a Conversation and write your message in the box.

    Good luck - hope he replies.

    Vitellino
     
  9. John S Adams

    John S Adams Member

    Thanks Vitellino
    I have done this
     
  10. John S Adams

    John S Adams Member

    Looking at Dave Tooes correspondence, his last contact with this website seems to have been in October 2017. I am hoping for the best.
     
  11. Hello Vitellino,

    Captain Jack Cameron Short, is my Grandfather. Thank you for mentioning him, if you have any more information on him I would really love to see. I only know very little about him from what I have found on the internet as well as pictures and a few letters passed down.

    Thank you!
     
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  12. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    Douglas, I will post the other information I have on the Chieti PG 21 thread.

    Vitellino

    Edited to say that I have decided to put it here instead. It comes from David Westheimer's book 'Sitting it out'.
    The men were in PG 78 Sulmona and were in the process of being entrained for Germany:

    Westheimer on Short 1.jpg Westheimer on Short 2.jpg

    Westheimer book cover.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2021
  13. Will Weston

    Will Weston New Member

    Hi everyone
    Having been doing some research in lock down of my deceased grandfather, Charles E. B.B. Simpson, we found out that he was in Gavi for some of the war. I was lucky enough to visit this morning and now sit on thought on what he and all your relatives when through together.
    He was artillery I believe and captured in Egypt, if anyone has any information or good places to look of be most interested.
    Many thanks Will Weston
     
  14. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    You really need to send for his Pow Record to the International Red Cross in Switzerland.

    The Archive opens again for enquiries on 16 May and you need to get your request in AS SOON AS THEY OPEN otherwise you will have to wait until August/ September.

    In the meantime, document WO 392/21, a register of POWs being held in Italy in August 1943, held in the National Archives, London confirms his presence in Gavi.

    Register WO 392/1 shows that he was sent on the Germany to O9A/Z at Rotenburg/Fulda after the Italian Armistice of 08 09 43.

    Regards,

    Vitellino
     

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