Channel 4. WWII: The Last Heroes

I think the programme last night did recall 'Our Heroes' very well. The majority of the Veterans interviewed were British.

 

Consistently none from North of Caen. Canadians Yes, but no British. Yet it was in that area that great things happened...I want to see our men in action and recalled for their bravery..Why not? For that is where the greatest actions occurred

 

Just out of curiosity would anyone know how much actual film footage exists of the fighting in the Normandy Bocage involving British Soldiers?

 

There is some, but the big problem most of it is held by the IWM who charge more than most production companies can afford to use it.

 

There is some, but the big problem most of it is held by the IWM who charge more than most production companies can afford to use it.

Hello Paul,

It is possible that the IWM is exceeding its chartitable objects by charging so much, after all charities are not supposed to be motivated by profit. The objects will set-out the charities purpose, for example, education, running of the museum(s), preservation of historical records, promoting the use of archived material, etc. I suggest it will not say 'leasing film footage at a premium to the highest bidder'.

Someone in the programme production industry should consider a challenge to the IWM on this basis. The charitable objects and some legal advice should reveal if this is possible.

Best,

Steve.

 

I can't speak for them of course but they charge what they believe is the 'going rate'. Unfortunately budgets for factual programming decrease each year and certainly all the ones I've been involved with in recent years we go elsewhere for archive as we just can't afford the IWM's rates. However, it does mean that the same footage is used again and again and it is hard to come up with anything 'new'.

 

One of those situations where if they charged less, they might make more.

JB39: in their film search, there about 600 reels if you use keyword = normandy and production company = GB.

 

Paul

As much as I enjoyed the scenes would it have been cheaper to show the IWM material as opposed to filming explosions in super slo-mo?

 

Hi Paul.
I once asked how much for some photos they held. The price was out of my reach. Daft because our men are never shown in their true light....And because most of these are too damned expensive... so for all intents and purposes they just sit there
sapper

 

Paul

As much as I enjoyed the scenes would it have been cheaper to show the IWM material as opposed to filming explosions in super slo-mo?

I have no idea and can't speak for another production company. No idea what their budget was for this, or what the explosions etc cost compared to archive.

 

Hi Paul.
I once asked how much for some photos they held. The price was out of my reach. Daft because our men are never shown in their true light....And because most of these are too damned expensive... so for all intents and purposes they just sit there
sapper

I do think it a shame that the vast majority of the IWM's photo library is never used unless you can strike some sort of 'deal' with them. To be honest, I don't see why deals are needed to offer material for use by those whose aim to publish is not profit.

If I used all IWM photos for one of my books (normally 100+ contemporary images) it would cost me more than £5K. To get just that back (let alone other research costs) in royalties would take 5-7 years of very, very good sales. So even with a commercial publisher the return for the author isn't great, and it means it puts these images out of your reach. In fairness the IWM are not the only ones who charge like this.

 

A certain member on here published a very good book and used IWM images in it. I believe they were provided by the IWM for free on the understanding that some of the royalties from the book (A percentage per sale I think) sales was given to a charity - I can't remember which but it was something like RBL etc.

 

That's what I mean, you have to do a deal, and every account I read, it's a different deal. I don't think that process is helpful or productive especially for an institution funded by public money.

 

I've just finished watching the 2nd episode and again I thought it was really good - Better than the first one about D-Day too with some excellent original footage.

I thought I would count the veteran interview clips on this episode to see if was very American bias like some members said the first episode was last week covering D-Day:

American = 9 Clips

Canadian = 7 Clips

British = 25 Clips

So I guess thats fairly conclusive

I quite liked the clip of the British soldier firing the Bren Gun from the hip - Anyone else see that?

I was also surprised about Patrick Delaforces comments calling Monty 'Barmy'. I thought all the British vets loved him.

Roll on part 3 !

 

I was also surprised about Patrick Delaforces comments calling Monty 'Barmy'. I thought all the British vets loved him.


I thought that was only for getting the RAF and USAAF to flatten Caen. It was barmy. Monty is still wonderful!

 

I thought that was only for getting the RAF and USAAF to flatten Caen. It was barmy. Monty is still wonderful!

Nope - He was also refering to Monty's plan to capture Caen on Day 1.

 

Nope - He was also refering to Monty's plan to capture Caen on Day 1.

If Monty was that confident/keen on capturing Caen on day 1 and given its importance to a quick break-out, should he not have made an Airbourne/Para drop near there also? Maybe there were not enough Airbourne/Para's and maybe he knew that German resistance would be very stiff. I don't know enough about our Airbourne/Para reserves and German dispositions around Caen on that day to really comment with any certainty myself.

It's easy to call someone barmy with hindsight, but I wonder what Delaforce thinks Monty knew in advance that made capturing Caen on day 1 barmy without hindsight?

Bombing Caen was barmy!

Best,

Steve.

 

I suspect this is the very same Mr Delaforce so who am I to agrue with him.

Pen and Sword Books: Titles by Patrick Delaforce

 

Monty was great man he never sent men into battle unnecessarily. But when it was, he did not hold back. I think most Vets trusted him

 

I think the original Normandy invasion plan by General Frederick Morgan (Chief of Staff to the Supreme Allied Commander) proposed airborne forces dropping on or near Caen on D-Day. But after Montgomery was appointed, Overlord was revised, widening the assault area and using airborne forces to secure the flanks.