Counselling! What’s That?

Discussion in 'Veteran Accounts' started by Maywalk, Aug 8, 2006.

  1. Maywalk

    Maywalk Junior Member

    I thought I might start this section with a poem I wrote that was published in my first book of poems. Its a true tale set in rhyme.
    If its not suitable please delete.;)

    COUNSELLING! WHAT’S THAT?


    I remember when war was declared that September Sunday morning
    And the siren wailing through the air to give us all the warning.
    Sitting in the Anderson shelter with a foot of water all around
    And listening to my mother pray as the bombs fell on the ground.

    It was a nightly ritual as down the Anderson we would go
    Hearing planes throb overhead, we soon learnt who was the foe.
    Two houses we lost during the Blitz and lots of personal stuff,
    Our life was very traumatic but it made us extremely tough.

    The devastation that we saw when all the dock’s were afire
    With remains of friends and neighbours it was like a funeral pyre.
    The realisation of having no home and becoming an evacuee,
    And being herded on a train like cattle for all the world to see.

    Our journey was quite hazardous while travelling on the train
    Because ‘Jerry’ decided to machine gun us over and over again.
    And then we faced the trauma of being pushed from pillar to post
    While traipsing round a strange town to find someone to be our host.

    But we made it through the bad times and learnt to laugh once more
    Because everyone helped each other whether they were rich or poor.
    There was no counselling in those days, no help out of the black pit
    You picked yourself up dusted yourself down and just got on with it.

    copyright---Maisie Walker 2001--- all rights reserved.
     
  2. sapper

    sapper WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    very nice effort Maisie.
     
  3. Maywalk

    Maywalk Junior Member

    Thanks Sapper.:)
     
  4. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

    Nice poem!
     
  5. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Nice poem May.

    I was taught by Irish Nuns (St Joseph of the Apparition) in primary school and they were the most loving, warm and generous people.

    I still keep in contact with two by email and they are in their 70's and eighties.
     
  6. adrian roberts

    adrian roberts Senior Member

    Maisie:

    I wonder if we should count you as a veteran? There were many servicemen, in camps or airfields well away from the towns, who reckoned their families were in more danger than they were!

    My mother-in-law tells us (frequently!) how on the day war was declared, she and her mother and sisters bundled into a taxi, and told the driver to take them from Catford in SE London, all the way to their holiday home in Salcombe, Devon. They then found they had forgotten the key, so m-in-law, being the smallest, was put through a window to go and open the door.

    My late father was not so lucky: at the age of six, he lost all his possessions when his home was bombed in the Coventry Blitz.

    Adrian
     
  7. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    Nice poem, but I'm not sure about the sentiment of it. Trauma hits people in many different ways and with most things most people can just pick themselves up, dust themselves down and get on with it.

    However, many lives, of individuals and whole families have been made a living hell because of that very attitude. The refusal to understand that PTSD is a real illness and nothing to be ashamed of. Bottling it up, refusing to talk about things and trying to get over things on their own has caused aggrvation of small cureable mental health problems and made families suffer with alcoholism, drug abuse, depression, violence and suicide. Today the charity Combat Stress help soldiers that are suffering from PTSD, many of them minor cases, but preventing them from developing into serious cases. The sad thing is, they are treating soldiers from many conflicts that never had the councilling when they came home, never knew they were 'ill' and have suffered, and their families have suffered, all their adult life when it just wasn't neccessary.

    Like I say, nice poem, and I agree that today it does seem like there is councilling for everything, but soldiers suffering or potentially suffering from PTSD deserve to be given the best treatment possible. Just because you managed to get through your experiences uneffected, dosen't mean that everyone is the same, and not all suffering is physical.
     
  8. Maywalk

    Maywalk Junior Member

    Thanks everyone for the feed back.

    I wrote poems to get any bad aggressive feelings out of my system.
    It was my way of coping.
    I had already had a bad start in life with the cruelty from the Sisters of Mercy and much resentment had already began to build up in me.
    I only wish the nuns that I went to were as good as yours Spidge.
    NO this isnt an excuse, just stating facts.

    In 1940 as a 10 year old who had been bombed out twice and living in the Anderson shelter for some time life was not a bed of roses.
    However strangely enough I would NOT have had my life any other way.
    I have wonderful memories of the way folk used to pull together and help each other.
    It has to be lived through to realise what I am saying.

    What annoys me in todays society is the fact they can get counselling at the drop of a hat for trivial things that we had to just get over.
    I had a brother who had been out in Burma for nearly 4 years who had nightmares and terrible mood swings with the things he had gone through.
    He was never offered help.

    As for my coming out of WW2 with no mental scars I can assure everyone that I can still see my little friends body burning everytime I close my eyes.
    That is one reason WHY I have helped many students with their history dissertations about the evacuation.
    I am more that happy to have got at least 12 through their A+ and one young lady through her M.A.Honours degree.
    My experiences have helped them and I still have one who has now become a teacher who keeps in touch with me.
    So out of evil has come forth good.
    God Bless All.
    Maisie.
     
  9. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    What annoys me in todays society is the fact they can get counselling at the drop of a hat for trivial things that we had to just get over.
    I had a brother who had been out in Burma for nearly 4 years who had nightmares and terrible mood swings with the things he had gone through.
    He was never offered help.

    There was help available to your brother. Combat Stress, which is the modern name of the "Ex-Services Mental Welfare Society", has been helping soldiers since 1919, but due to the social stigma of mental health problems it was only the very severe cases that were refered to them for help. The ones who struggled through tough days and hellish nights with their problems thinking that it was normal, never knew that there was help available. In fact, the stigma meant most would go out of their way to avoid help even if they knew it was available.

    Strange to point out that the very 'get on with your life' attitude that you say should prevail, as that's what you did, is the very attitude that traps the victims of PTSD into a life of bad memories, addiction and mightmares. Things that if councilling was sought could become manageable if not completely cured. If everyone puts on a brave front and suffers in silence, everyone thinks they are different instead of knowing that many people suffer the bad dreams, flashbacks and re-live the horrors they have suffered.

    You are right that some seek councilling for trivia, but it may not be trivia for them. Isn't it a good thing that help is available when you feel that you need it? After all, treating the causes of trivial problems prevents them developing into major problems and serious mental health issues. They do say prevention is better than cure.
     
  10. Maywalk

    Maywalk Junior Member

    You sound quite knowledgable about these matters Plant-Pilot and I am not disputing the fact that there was a Combat Distress Society but HOW many soldiers, sailors or airmen did you know who knew about this?
    More to the point HOW may did you know who were treated by them?
    Are you a veteran?

    I have never came across one yet in all my 76 years who has ever mentioned it and I have been in touch with many not only through my websites but knowing them personally.

    Maybe they did not want to be regarded as being mentally unbalanced.
    WHO KNOWS?
    You have to go through these terrible experiences to find out exactly what you would do.

    Cheers Maywalk.
     
  11. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    You sound quite knowledgable about these matters Plant-Pilot and I am not disputing the fact that there was a Combat Distress Society but HOW many soldiers, sailors or airmen did you know who knew about this?
    More to the point HOW may did you know who were treated by them?
    Are you a veteran?

    I have never came across one yet in all my 76 years who has ever mentioned it and I have been in touch with many not only through my websites but knowing them personally.

    Maybe they did not want to be regarded as being mentally unbalanced.
    WHO KNOWS?
    You have to go through these terrible experiences to find out exactly what you would do.

    Cheers Maywalk.


    In the British Army and had a few mates who had been down that 'drinking, fighting and complete idiot' path before getting help and turning back into 'normal' members of society. Proof that once you understand that you actually have a problem, and get over the stigma of seeing a doctor to get help for a mental problem, things can be cured.

    PTSD is quite a big thing now and before tours of duty we are briefed on signs and symptoms, and again just before we get back. In the 'old days' people were told that there was help, but not what to look out for in yourself or more importantly in your mates. The mere suggestion that you may need some help was classed as an insult and denied, meaning help was never accepted and that people suffered for years, many until their death and many are still suffering, unaware that their condition can still be cured.

    I hate to say it, but it is attitudes like yours that make people too embarrassed to seek help for what they feel could be a problem, and feel that others will see as a sign of their weakness and inability to cope. Everyone's different as is their experience and while some manage to cope or even muddle through, others really do suffer.

    You say your poetry is a way of dealing with your experiences, but have you thought that things could have been delt with sooner or in a more complete way if you had sought a little councelling? You may not think so. It might not be the case. But if you have never tried it, you will never know.

    And by the way, there are many agencies and charities out there who are there to help that people never know about until they stumble on them by accident. That is the really sad thing, that help isn't more well known and some people's pride prevents them from getting the help they deserve.

    Link to Combat Stress
     
  12. Maywalk

    Maywalk Junior Member

    There was no counselling in 1940 Plant-Pilot.

    WERE YOU AROUND THEN? Or has all your knowledge come from reading books.
    Some of which are NOT strictly true as I can vouch for with an author who had my evacuee story and from other evacuees and changed truth into fiction.

    If I had an attitude as you state I would not have listened to many veterans and put their tales on my website.
    Many tales NEVER spoken about before but I got permission from every one of them to put their stories and poems on my site.
    Go and read the guest book on the war vets website.It speaks for itself. Plus three re-unions from it.

    WE will have to agree to disagree on this subject I am afraid.

    Cheers Maywalk.

    ps: You never answered my question. ARE YOU A VETERAN?
     
  13. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    There was no counselling in 1940 Plant-Pilot.

    Councilling was available, however it wasn't offered openly or sought actively for the reasons we have both pointed out. In fact councilling was only 'prescribed' or refered by a doctor, and then only in cases of severe mental health problems. As I have pointed out, help has been on offerd to ex-service members by at least one charitable organisation since 1919.

    WERE YOU AROUND THEN? Or has all your knowledge come from reading books.
    No, I was not there and I do not refer to any works of fiction. The history of Combat Stress would indicate that help has been on offer since the charity was formed in 1919. It is the attitude to 'Mental Health' that has stopped help from being offered openly..... but it was there if sought.

    If I had an attitude as you state I would not have listened to many veterans and put their tales on my website.
    I refer to the attitude you started this thread with, that is, that people don't need councilling and should just sort themselves out and get on with it. In an ideal world that would be fine. But far better if people think that they need help, for that help to be available. Indeed people who have been suffering since the Second World War are being successfully treated by 'Combat Stress'. If that help which was available at the time had been found back then their lives could have been much improved over the last 60 years.

    WE will have to agree to disagree on this subject I am afraid.

    Cheers Maywalk.

    ps: You never answered my question. ARE YOU A VETERAN?

    I did actually say. Still a serving member of the Royal Engineers, so not officially a 'veteran' I have served in several conflicts and will be as soon as I hang up my uniform.

    You say you disagree, but advocate that veterans offer their poetry, thoughts and memories in order to help come to terms with their experiences. Is this not in itself a form of therapy? Stopping things from getting bottled up, showing others that their feelings aren't theirs on their own and they are not alone. It's the 'pull yourself together' and 'sort yourself out' and you dont need help idea that is counter productive.
     
  14. Maywalk

    Maywalk Junior Member

    Posted by PP Quote
    I refer to the attitude you started this thread with, that is, that people don't need councilling and should just sort themselves out and get on with it. unquote

    I was referring to those who were bombed out in the Blitz PP.
    NOTHING at all to do with veterans.
    YOU were NOT in the Blitz so how on earth can you summarise how or what folk felt. Why dont you go and ask many more who went through that time and you will find they give you the same answer.
    If my poem has upset your equilibrium and put you in an argumentative mood I suggest you ask the web owner to remove it.

    Yes the veterans were happy to get one or two things off their chests and I am proud to think they entrusted their stories and poems to me.

    I too had a brother serving in North Africa during WW2 who was in the REs apart from the eldest one who was in the RAF serving in Burma.
    Plus my adopted brother who was a Paratooper.

    Thanks for the input but if this is the way things are on this website I dont think I want to be a part of it.
    At my age I have gone past wanting to argue with folks who were NOT in WW2 who THINK they can tell others who were what they should say and not say or what words to use in a poem.

    Cheers from Maywalk.
     
  15. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    I'm sorry you feel that way. You posted your poem on an open forum in a thread with a title that implies that councilling is a modern thing and unnecessary. Being on an open forum I was expecting that you were willing to receive comment, which I'm sure that you are aware isn't always what you'd like to hear, but that isn't going to stop people from commenting.

    I'm sure you know that any comment was not against the poem but one of the sentiments in it (and in the title). You'll have to go a long way to find somewhere only for people who were themselves in WW2 and it is I feel detrimental for everyone not to listen to other views, and if needed show them where they are in error. More to the point, if you want a 'participants only' WW2 forum it will be a very quiet and friutless place to be. You should be passing on our history to the younger generation, not complaining because some people don't agree with you.

    Give up at the first hurdle? That's not the blitz mentality!
     
  16. Maywalk

    Maywalk Junior Member

    My title was to show that it DID NOT exist in those far off years for victims of the Blitz. Once again I stress that you were NOT there so how can you say what was and wasn't available at that time.

    I have just been talking to three pensioners who are older than myself and one was a nurse during WW2 ( her story is on my website ) she also said that it counselling wasnt heard of then.:(
    Funnily enough that poem has been going for some time now and been all round the world. I have had many folk coming back to me about the truth of it but there always has to be one that disputes the truth.:( :D

    I dont give up at the first hurdle or else I would not be here today.:confused:

    Having just lost my lovely dog who has passed away I just cant be bothered arguing with you.
    AS I said we agree to disagree.
    Enough said.
     
  17. adrian roberts

    adrian roberts Senior Member

    As a Psychiatric Nurse, I have met many older people who trace their problems back to the trauma of being evacuated as children.

    I believe the collective experience of the two world wars affected this nation more profoundly than we realise. Some coped by hardening themselves up: both my mother and my mother-in-law would be with Maywalk in the "You've just got to get on with it" camp. But as Plant-Pilot says, different people are affected in different ways by the same experience. Those who do not cope are not necessarily weak or failures. The existence of better counselling services now are a sign of a more enlightened society, not a weaker one.

    Adrian
     
  18. Maywalk

    Maywalk Junior Member

    Just to prove a point here are two more stories from the BBC website saying that there was NO counselling during WW2.

    BBC - WW2 People's War - Memories of the Norwich Fire Service

    The above story says there was no counselling for stress in those days.

    BBC - WW2 People's War - The Blitz: Both Frightening and Exciting

    This story calls it internal fortitude


    I would like to add that I have NEVER thought of anyone as being weak or failures.
    I just stated what a good many more are saying. That there was NO counselling during those years.
    Everyone during WW2 had guts as far as I am concerned and we all had fear inside us.

    If anyone can come forward of that era to say they had counselling I will concede to those who say counselling was available during those years for civilians, but I need proof.

    God Bless All.
    Maywalk.
     
  19. plant-pilot

    plant-pilot Senior Member

    I never said that 'councilling' in the way we mean it today was available to civilians, however assistance for mental health problems were.

    Also, there was 'councilling' or assistance for the forces as the charity has been around since 1919. That said, it was probably not even considered by most if even openly offered, but it was there.

    Again I point out that when you said:What annoys me in todays society is the fact they can get counselling at the drop of a hat for trivial things that we had to just get over.
    Shouldn't you be happy that things have improved rather than annoyed that it wasn't available to you?

    I would also like to ask if somebody is only allowed to comment on episodes in history that they were actually there for? Is it not a fact that if that was indeed the case, very little in history or even the news that we would be able to comment on.
     
  20. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    May, I wish to thank you for sharing your experiences with us, and for the beautiful and technically very good website of yours.

    Although of a neutral country at the time, I still remember the stories my mother used to tell me of those times, the rationing, the blackout, the ever present anxiety of "is it our turn now?" whenever a plane flew above at night.

    There were a few nights of sheer panic in November 42 when Operation Torch started, with a lot of air traffic along the Portuguese coast, south-south. A sizable number of planes used to take shortcuts overland, and as nobody knew what that was, everyone surmized it was bombers and this was it!

    Several families had to pool their eggs and butter allocation for my mom's wedding cake, and one of the most prized gifts was an entire cured ham, God knows from which black market...

    One of my aunts took one Austrian boy refugee, he stayed for years and finally went home, to what home there was. When she went to the train station to pick him up there was this commitee who had arranged a luncheon with sandwiches and milk, what could be afforded. The kids came down from the train, were taken to this room and kept very quiet. There was no one who could speak German and tell them that the food was meant for them! Afterwards he came visiting several times, took my aunt to Austria, and he still writes in Christmas.
     

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