CWGC Archives, Exhumation & Re-burial returns: Maps, Map References Help requests

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by Drew5233, May 9, 2015.

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  1. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Found one airman listed by name, rank, serial number date of death, grave number etc, who is now listed on Runnymede as having no known grave ?
     
    jonheyworth, Aug 19, 2015
    #41
  2. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Finally cracked it tonight. Although my grandfather's new details did not reveal any new information for my research, another POW's concentration papers did. I've always wanted to know when the POW casualties from Rangoon Jail were re-buried at Rangoon War Cemetery. Well, it was 14th June 1946.

    Well chuffed. :)
     
    bamboo43, Aug 21, 2015
    #42
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  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Excellent, Steve.
     
    dbf, Aug 21, 2015
    #43
  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Am currently going through all IG casualties.

    I note that CWGC states:
    The concentration forms seem to be the busiest for corrections and versions, as well as holding key info about field graves, but a grave registration report form also provided an interesting observation.

    At Valkenswaard, there are six Unknown IG, killed on the same date.
    valkenswaard cwgc grave registration.JPG
    This attached form states "3IG" for two of the plots, whereas all the headstones are simply IG with date. Now I have to work my way round the system to find the other four. (2nd and 3rd bns fought together as IG group.)

    http://www.ww2guards.com/ww2guards/Cemeteries_-_Holland/Pages/VALKENSWAARD_WAR_CEMETERY,_HOLLAND.html#2
     
    dbf, Aug 21, 2015
    #44
  5. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I noticed on some of the concentration reports for Bayeux the end Column is titled `Report(numbers)` and the casualty has a number recorded in this column. Anyone know what the `reports` would have contained are they Casualty reports or Reports dealing with their exhumation?


    Thanks

    Kyle
     

    Attached Files:

    Mr Jinks, Aug 22, 2015
    #45
  6. Skip

    Skip Senior Member

    Very useful topic ... I've learnt a lot from running some test cases through it. Cheers for posting Andy
     
    Skip, Aug 22, 2015
    #46
  7. Skip

    Skip Senior Member

    Kyle - many thanks for posting the associated acronyms. This really has proved a very useful exercise.
     
    Skip, Aug 23, 2015
    #47
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Re: whether casualty or exhumation report.
    I can't find any official explanation, but I'd tend towards exhumation, if only because these forms deal with reburial and are titled as concentration reports.
    If you also look at the dates and status for casualty in your example, one report number (30) covers different casualty date/status and unit...the first DOW died the day before the first KIA, so if anything these men couldn't have died as a result of the same incident.
    Screen Shot 2015-08-23 at 12.14.03.png

    I'm guessing that the report referred to might have something to do with verification of ID before remains were taken on to concentration cemetery and issued with markers there ... ... which is where Verrieres/Jim's find some time ago at TNA of Grave Units files might well come in. (IIRC one CWGC representative stated in correspondence to him that they weren't too pleased these files were in public domain as it might be upsetting for relatives.)
    Screen Shot 2015-08-23 at 12.42.56.png
     
    dbf, Aug 23, 2015
    #48
  9. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    I would agree with Diane. The concentration reports for POW burials at Rangoon are differently laid out, but the information in the same column you itemise, refers to the previous/original burial.
     
    bamboo43, Aug 23, 2015
    #49
  10. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Diane,Bamboo43,
    Thanks for that I wondered about it as the reports (numbers) referred to men of the same unit or Regiment and as all had been reburied at the same time I could not understand why there were different reports hence I thought it may refer to them becoming a casualty? However if the reports dealt with their initial field burial this would explain why each report for each regiment/unit is different .These reports would have originally (presumably) have been completed by their parent unit who carried out the field burials?

    Thanks

    Kyle
     
    Mr Jinks, Aug 23, 2015
    #50
  11. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    Going through old e-mails, I found the file reference where map 7F/1 can be found. It's WO223/128. Someone sent me photos of it in January 2012.

    [​IMG]
     
    Buteman, Aug 24, 2015
    #51
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  12. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    dbf, Aug 26, 2015
    #52
  13. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    dbf, Sep 5, 2015
    #53
  14. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    dbf, Sep 5, 2015
    #54
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  15. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    I wish I had spotted this earlier. Found a load of maps in 23 Hussars war diary and one of them was 6F/6. If anyone else can pull file ref WO171/847, it,s in an envelope at the end of August 1944.

    Sorry D. If no one gets there before I go to Kew again, it's on my list of things to do.
     
    Buteman, Sep 5, 2015
    #55
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  16. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hi Rob
    No worries. MKenny sent me the correct section and I posted it on the linked thread.

    Thanks for spotting the request anyway and giving the file ref.. We do have a spot in the gallery for any maps which people might care to share after they have found copies. http://ww2talk.com/forums/gallery/category/14-maps/
     
    dbf, Sep 5, 2015
    #56
  17. WokingFamilyTreeProject

    WokingFamilyTreeProject New Member

    CWGC lists a "concentration" for Gunner Harold Collyer from 8GR/WEL/2005 to the Massicault, Tunisia Cemetery.
    Is that a traceable map reference?
     
    WokingFamilyTreeProject, Nov 21, 2015
    #57
  18. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    For reference -
    Collyer.JPG

    http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2196054/
    COLLYER, HAROLD
    Rank:Gunner
    Service No:1131796
    Date of Death:03/02/1943
    Age:20
    Regiment/Service:Royal Artillery 17 Field Regt.
    Grave Reference: VI. J. 3.
    Cemetery:MASSICAULT WAR CEMETERY
    Additional Information:Son of Albert Edward and Annie Collyer, of Westfield, Woking, Surrey.
     
    dbf, Nov 21, 2015
    #58
  19. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi All,

    I stumbled across an interesting piece of information on the top of one of the additional upload sheets for WW2 casualties on the CWGC website.

    For a group of men buried at Rangoon War Cemetery, there seems to be the name and address of the Engraving Company used to produce the memorial plaques. See attachment.

    It looks like the firm still exist, so I might drop them a line to see if they hold records of their work.

    Best wishes

    Steve

    56.jpg 57.JPG
     
    bamboo43, Dec 27, 2015
    #59
  20. hutchie

    hutchie Dont tell him Pike!!

    Is this still available or have they closed it now?
     
    hutchie, Jan 5, 2016
    #60
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