Desert Rat - more info about my Dad

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Biscuitman, Mar 2, 2020.

  1. Biscuitman

    Biscuitman Member

    I've just come from the User Introductions and I'm looking for more info about my dads War.
    I have his Release Book and his Service and Pay Book which gives me some information and he said he was in the Eighth Army in the desert on the 25 pounders.
    I think he was at El Alamein but don't know if he went on to Tobruk. I assume he went over to italy.
    He got the usual medals plus the Africa Star, Italy Star, France & Germany Star etc
    His Army no was 1591509 Rank W/Bdr name Cecil Davies.
    Sorry if you've already read this before.
    As suggested by AB64 I've attached some images of the info I've got - any further info would be appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  3. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    This is why you need his service records - looking through this database UK, WWII Royal Artillery Tracer Cards, 1939-1948 Results (on Ancestry) there are zero results against name and or number

    Thats not to say he wont be in other databases's, BUT makes obtaining his service records all the more important, and why guesswork prior to their receipt is often a waste of time


    TD
     
  4. Biscuitman

    Biscuitman Member

    OK thanks everyone for your help, I'll give it a go.
     
  5. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    I've had a look at the attachments but as usual they don't show much to help - Service records are always the best option but if you're lucky you can get odds and ends elsewhere or from paperwork like this, but unfortunately it looks like there aren't really any threads to pick up on until you get his records.
     
  6. Biscuitman

    Biscuitman Member

    I've sent for his Army Records and managed to decipher this on his Release Book.
    'K' BTY Field Wing Depot RA.
    I assume that's K Battery Royal Artillery
     
  7. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    Unfortunately as it says its a depot unit so was probably almost a staging post to his demobilisation and not a unit that would have been in the field - his service records will show the actual fighting units he was with
     
    Tullybrone likes this.
  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

    K Bty were definitely Desert Rats and the medals are consistent with their world tour but not unique. Will be interested to see where this goes.
     
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    K Bty Royal Horse Artillery were definitely Desert Rats and the medals are consistent with their world tour but not unique. Will be interested to see where this goes.
     
    AB64 and JimHerriot like this.
  10. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Although you haven’t included the date of this entry I’d agree with Alastair that it’s more likely to be read as K Battery (Field Wing) Depot Royal Artillery - so not a posting to an actual fighting unit in 8th Army or elsewhere.

    Steve
     
    AB64 likes this.
  11. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    I think this is a separate K Battery from the RHA one, but should add I don't have definitive proof (and would be happy to be wrong) - I think if it was K Battery 5th RHA the stamp would mention that, service records will clarify as even if it is the RHA battery until the records arrive we wont know if he was with them all through or of he moved to them late. Gunners seems to have been moved around a lot from their wartime units during the demob process (tracer cards seem to back this up)

    Steve, the release book page with the stamps has dates around Dec 45- Feb 46
     
    Tullybrone likes this.
  12. idler

    idler GeneralList

    K Bty Royal Horse Artillery were definitely Desert Rats and the medals are consistent with their world tour but not unique. Will be interested to see where this goes.
     
  13. idler

    idler GeneralList

    K Bty Royal Horse Artillery were definitely Desert Rats and the medals are consistent with their world tour but not unique. Will be interested to see where this goes.
     
  14. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    While you say he was awarded the F&G Star the F&G Star is not “ticked” on the slip that accompanied the medals at the time of issue- it looks to me that his 5 medals were 39/45, Africa (with clasp) & Italy Star plus Defence & War Medal.

    Steve
     
    AB64 likes this.
  15. Biscuitman

    Biscuitman Member

    You're right Steve - I made a mistake.
    Thanks to all of you guys for your replies - just got to wait for his records to come through now. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions after I've received them!!

    Biscuitman
     
    Tullybrone likes this.
  16. Biscuitman

    Biscuitman Member

    Hi everyone
    I've sent for my dads records but obviously nothings happening at the moment - Covid-19!
    Ive only got two photos of my dad in the desert (one attached) and I wondered if there were any clues or anyone recognised somebody else in the photo. Bit of a long shot but if you don't ask.......
    My Dad, Cecil (Dave) Davies Is bottom left.
    20200508_180731030.jpg
     
    Charley Fortnum likes this.
  17. Biscuitman

    Biscuitman Member

    Hi There
    One of the things I cant get to grips with is the structure of the 8th Army.
    How was it constructed viz a viz Divisions, Brigades, Regiments, Battalions etc.
    My dad told me he was on the 25 pounders - was he in an armoured division or what?
    It's all a bit of a mystery to me.
    Any info would be appreciated

    Thanks Biscuitman
     
  18. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    8th Army was an enormous organisation - reaching over 200,000 men - so it is impossible to describe it’s composition as it changed at various dates - see Order of Battle in this link as a starting point -


    Eighth Army (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia

    Your father could’ve been part of the RA element in an infantry or Armoured unit. He could’ve even have been part of a mixed “Jock Column”.

    Jock column - Wikipedia

    As frustrating as it is you will just have to wait for his service records to reveal the details.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  19. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Eighth Army had a number of Corps under its command. The number varied according to the operation.

    Each Corps normally had three Infantry Divisions in it. It might have a Tank Bde or an Armoured Division attached for a specific operation.

    An Infantry Division had three Infantry Brigades in it. Each Division had an array of support in it - artillery, engineers, intelligence, supply, police, chaplains, medical. That support went wherever the Division went.

    An Armoured or Infantry Division always had three Artillery Regiments supporting them and three Engineer Field Companies or Field Squadrons supporting them.

    An Armoured Division tended to have two Armoured Brigades and an Infantry Brigade in trucks in it.

    An Infantry Brigade had three Infantry Battalions in it.

    An Infantry Battalion had four Rifle Companies in it - reduced to three after Aug 44.

    Regards

    Frank
     
    James M. Green and vitellino like this.
  20. Biscuitman

    Biscuitman Member

    Thanks Frank and Steve
    Some good information there which gives me something to mull over.
    Probably not going to get my Dad's records for some time with Covid-19 going on, so I'll have to patient.
    Thanks again
    Biscutiman (Colin)
     

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