Discharged as unfit to serve in 1941, still part of CWGC in 1945

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by GoldmanT, Oct 16, 2021.

  1. GoldmanT

    GoldmanT Member

    My father in law's father was discharged in 1941 as unfit for service, presumably on health grounds, and eventually died of tuberculosis in August 1945 in Bovey Tracey hospital, Devon.

    However, he is present on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission list, and has what looks like a military headstone in a cemetery in Exeter (near the hospital). He was neither serving while he died, nor died before the end of the war, so I'm confused why he would be included in this - was it extended to any soldier who served during the war who died within a certain amount of time of the war ending?

    Was Bovey Tracey a military (or military funded) hospital? We're not sure how he ended up there as he was living in London prior to this.

    I do have basic service records but they basically stop at 1941, so the period from there to his death are a bit of a black hole. Is there any way of getting medical records out of the MOD these days, particularly for next of kin (my wife is the soldier's granddaughter)?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  2. Richard Lewis

    Richard Lewis Member

    From the CWGC website.
    https://www.cwgc.org/media/0awj5vti/policy-eligibility-criteria-for-commemoration_march21.pdf

    We commemorate people who served in the Commonwealth armed forces during the First or Second World War, whose death:
    • occurred during the official war period; and
    • was the result of:
    • wounds inflicted or accident occurring during active service;
    • disease contracted or commencing while on active service; or
    • disease aggravated by active service.​

    In practice, this means that:
    • serving military personnel are commemorated irrespective of the cause or circumstances of their death; and
    • military personnel who died post-discharge are commemorated if it is established that they meet the above criteria.​

    War Periods.
    References to serving in the First World War or Second World War mean service at any time during the official war periods stated below:
    First World War: 4 August 1914 to 31 August 1921 (dates inclusive).
    Second World War: 3 September 1939 to 31 December 1947 (dates inclusive).​
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  3. GoldmanT

    GoldmanT Member

    Ah so the tb was linked to his discharge. Does anyone know if the military would have funded treatment after discharge?
     
  4. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    The Scots Guards WW2 era service records on findmypast have a number of examples of men discharged with TB during the war who continued to receive their medical treatment (sanatorium) at no cost to themselves.

    Steve
     
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  5. GoldmanT

    GoldmanT Member

    Thank you, so it's a possibility, I got the impression sanatoria weren't cheap back then.

    So last thing, is there a way of finding out medical records if they weren't included with a standard service record request? I read that it's just MOD policy not to release them now.
     
  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    have you his name or is it in other posts you have raised?
     
  7. GoldmanT

    GoldmanT Member

    Patrick Moriarty, 7261636.
     
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  8. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Corp Patrick Anthony Moriarty (unknown-1945) -...

    CORPORAL PATRICK ANTHONY MORIARTY
    Service Number: 7261636
    Regiment & Unit/Ship
    Royal Army Medical Corps

    Date of Death
    Died 17 August 1945

    Age 31 years old

    Buried or commemorated at
    EXETER HIGHER CEMETERY

    Sec. Z.M. Grave 24.

    United Kingdom


    • Country of ServiceUnited Kingdom
    • Additional InfoSon of Patrick and Ethel Maud Moriarty, of Plumstead, London.
    • Personal InscriptionNO WORDS CAN BRING A LOVED ONE BACK. WE EVER WILL REMEMBER. MUM, DAD AND SISTER

    [​IMG]
     
  9. GoldmanT

    GoldmanT Member

    Thanks I'd already found that site, it's the previous 5 years we're trying to pin down. Interestingly though, the service records came with a copy of that exact same photo, so they must be using FindaGrave as a resource somehow.
     
  10. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

  11. GoldmanT

    GoldmanT Member

    Thanks, you reminded me that I'd contacted them by email in June but not had a response, I might try phoning to ascertain whether they're likely to hold such records.
     
  12. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    Poor bloke . CWGC commemoration post discharge is a bit of an unfathoramable lottery . Some seem to be , some don’t . People who died of the same causes around the same date, one is , one isn’t . I’ve not yet discovered how it was decided . I’ve come across many I think should be , who aren’t , and many who are who I think shouldn’t be .
     
  13. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    MOD won’t release any medical information. The files I’ve seen contain medical information until the date of discharge but nothing further apart from an occasional request for. Information post death from the Ministry of Pensions.

    Steve
     
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  14. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    it’s probably not there anyway . Cause of death post discharge in records is quite rare . I’ve never managed to locate, even the CWGC don’t know , how someone was deemed eligible for commemoration
     
  15. GoldmanT

    GoldmanT Member

    We have the death certificate, it's just whether there would be any medical records prior to discharge. If the MOD are just not releasing them then that's that for now. Although I read that it may be different when the records are transferred to the National Archive?
     
  16. Richard Lewis

    Richard Lewis Member

    The National Archives may treat these records as they have with World War I servicemen and women by including medical details.

    However, to quote the National Archives,
    “As these are personnel records, they naturally contain a range of personal data including medical information. To protect the information in these records, closure will apply until 115 years past the date of birth of the individual. Whether or not the material can be open to all or closed fully or in part will be assessed on this basis or upon request under relevant data protection and freedom of information laws”.​
    MOD Records Project - The National Archives

    So, in the case of Patrick Moriarty, his records will be closed until around 2029/30.
     
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  17. GoldmanT

    GoldmanT Member

    Interesting, thank you.

    Rather than start a new thread (this isn't really related to the title) there are half a dozen addresses listed in the Next of Kin box - most of them we recognise and/or make sense in the context of where he was (London) and who he was with, but the very last one is up in Bishop Auckland, County Durham. Does that place have a particular link to the RAMC/WW2? And would that have been the last next of kin address when he was discharged, i.e. they wouldn't update the addresses after discharge to stay in touch for any reason?

    Also, if anyone can shed any light on any of the attached qualifications that would be great, apart from the obvious ones they don't mean a lot to me, granted some of them may be RAMC specific.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  18. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Medical records are a lottery. My dad applied for his and as a surviving veteran, it's a freedom of information thing - he's allowed to know what they have on record about him. What arrived included lots of dental charts and information about when he enlisted, but only a single small reference to him being admitted to a field hospital in July 1944....no account of his wounds or treatment....a lot of things don't seem to have made it into the central records.
     

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