Finding info on a family member taken pow at Tobruk. Need HELP!

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Rik17, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. Rik17

    Rik17 New Member

    Hi, I'm trying to find the correct details of Grandfather taken Prisoner at Tobruk.
    The info I have does not seem to be in any records. I have checked Ancestry, Find my past, but nothing!
    His info I have as follows:

    Albert Frank Flower
    Tank Driver
    POW @ PG53 Settore number 1 Sforzacosta near Macerata.
    Service number 7911834 ??? I believe this could be missing a number ?
    Rank WS/SGT.

    This is the info that the family has but it doesn't turn up anywhere. We where told he escaped and live in Italy for a few years but can't prove this. He never talk about his War Service and thus remains a mystery.

    ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT.
     
  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    I'm sure someone will be along shortly who has access via Ancestry to the 1945 German POW index which should then confirm his army service number although that 7 digit number looks correct as it is amongst the block allocation to The Royal Armoured Corps.

    With that number confirmed you will be able to apply to UK MOD for his service papers - although you can apply on a DOB only. They will cost £30.

    You should consider looking for his Liberation Questionnaire at UK National Archives. Not all POW's completed one. If you can't get to London some members here offer a look up service.

    Finally you can obtain his POW papers from
    The Red Cross in Switzerland in due course. ICRC are part way through a digitisation project so they may not be available till 2016. Check their website for updates.

    Good Luck

    Steve Y
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Hello and welcome - Everything Steve said above. Do you have any pictures you could post up?
     
  4. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi Rik17,

    The details you have are almost certainly correct as they match those recorded for Albert on a file at the National Archives (WO392/21).

    This document is known to contain errors, but I thought I would post the details for you, as this is only confirming what you already know. See attached jpeg.

    I can only reaffirm what the forum members have suggested in the above posts, definitely apply for his service records.

    28.jpg
     
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Rik17

    Can you provide any further details of your grandfather, e.g date of birth, place of birth, date he died etc

    On Ancestry I have a possible but need your help in verifying it is him:
    Name: Albert F Flower
    Mother's Maiden Name: Grace
    Registration Year: 1915
    Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
    Registration district: Wandsworth
    Inferred County: London
    Volume: 1d
    Page: 1181


    Name: Albert Frank Flower
    Birth Date: 29 Oct 1915
    Date of Registration: Mar 2005
    Age at Death: 89
    Registration district: Alton
    Inferred County: Hampshire
    Register Number: 30C
    District and Subdistrict: 489/1
    Entry Number: 144


    TD
     
  6. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Removed irrelevant post after re reading your edited first post. If he escaped that explains why he doesn't feature on any other PoW lists. Apply for his Service records :)

    Kyle
     
  7. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Kyle,

    Not aware what you have deleted but OP says it is family story he escaped - as we know from other threads on the forum family stories are not always supported by facts.

    Has someone confirmed he is not on 1945 German POW list?

    Regards

    Steve
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi Steve

    I have checked the Ancestry database for German held POW's and he does not appear on there, so presume he escaped the Italian POW camp and made his way back at sometime to Allied lines.

    It might be worth Rik17 contacting member - vitellino - who seems to have a very good handle on Italian POW camps and escapee's from those.

    TD
     
  9. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi TD,

    Thanks for the update.

    Regards

    Steve
     
  10. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Sorry it was checks on 1944 and 1945 PoW lists that were irrelevent. Agreed the family stories are not to be taken as Gospel without the facts but with the addition of the edit "We where told he escaped and live in Italy for a few years .." it explains why he cannot find him on Ancestry or Find my past on any of the other PoW lists and a family story relating to a period of a `few years` ..well I think I would assume this to be true? He`s listed in WO21 and whilst not the most reliable document if a man is listed in the file at least it can be taken as read that at sometime he was a prisoner of the Italians up to and including their surrender in 1943? Given his omission from the German lists he has either escaped or been repatriated either way the family story that he `escaped and live in Italy for a few years` appears more plausible? An answer I would have posted had I been able to view the full story in post 1 hence the deleted irrelevant checks on the PoW lists. :)
    Not being aware of any other resource (No mention in London Gazette etc) I have recommended the Service Records although thinking about it they will simply confirm his absence ? Liberation Questionaire as you originally suggested?

    Kyle
     
  11. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    The other forum member that would be worth contacting is - Varasc - as again he is Italian and a specialist in this area of WW2

    TD
     
  12. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi Kyle,

    Thanks for taking the time to compose your explanation. Much appreciated.

    Regards

    Steve
     
    Mr Jinks likes this.
  13. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Drew5233 likes this.
  14. vitellino

    vitellino Senior Member

    According to WO WO392/21 an A.C. Flowers was beint held in Campo PG 77 at Pissignano (Campello sul Clitunno) near Spoleto in Umbria so I don't think he's the man.

    Vitellino
     
  15. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Thanks Vitellino, very close to our house in Gualdo then. :)

    All the best

    Andreas
     

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