First post RA / Navy / Paras

I am seeking some pointers on where to go next with researching my father's WW2 military record. The below information was gleaned by my now deceased mother, after me asking her to get the details. I am starting the process of appying for his service record. I have general background info about Hardwick Hall and Ringway.

Roger Outing born in1920 at Knaresborough, then in the West Riding of Yorkshire.
Joined the army in the early days of December 1941- Royal Artillery.
Did basic training at Harrogate, but has mentioned also training at Castle Howard.
From there he travelled to Shaftesbury in Dorset, Dover, Cambridge, Scarborough, West Stanley, and was at Otterburn, Christmas 1942
Transferred to the Navy in 1943 as they were short of gunners and went Lowestoft, Portsmouth, Leamington.
Whilst at Pwllheli, the then recently built Butlin’s camp taken over by the forces, he heard a talk about the Paras.
1944 did basic training at Hardwick Hall, did the jumps at Ringway and got his wings.
From there he went to Salisbury, and Parkhurst Barracks Isle of Wight, then via Southampton (?) by boat to Egypt, landed at Port Said, then to Ismailia, and onto Palestine by train.
1945 by boat from Tripoli (?) to Toulon, France; lorries to Arras near Paris, across from Calais to Dover, then Aldershot and demobbed 1946.

At various times over the years he has told me :-
He did five combat jumps.
He was under fire somewhere in France, facing tanks.
He was demoted from either Corporal or L/ Corp for fighting.
He boxed for his battalion.
He claims to have been involved in the later part (?)of Market Garden.

Any clues in this as to which battilion, unit etc he would been in?

I have attached the links to two photogrpahs - one large group photograph, and a group of three Paras with my father on the left. Both have no with no details on the back.

Apologies upfront if this is too long for a first post.

Thank you
Lewis
Zenfolio | Mainlyfax | Mono Misc | Photo 9]

Zenfolio | Mainlyfax | Mono Misc | Photo 9

 

hello Lewis
Welcome to the forum
a good start is sending off for his service records
Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Personnel | Service Records | Making a Request for Information held on the Personnel Records of Deceased Service Personnel

 

The only RA training unit in Harrogate was 9 Field Training Regiment so he must have been initially allocated to field artillery.

 

Hi Lewis and welcome. Your Father's story sounds rather unusual: RA, RN and paras.
Look forward to hearing more of the story when you have more info, good luck with your research.

Mike.

 

Welcome to the forum Lewis - enjoy!

Best,

Steve.

 

Welcome Lewis, I must admit the mix of service your Father seems to have done is as Mike, said very unusual, and the mention of five combat jumps from 1944 onwards when he got his wings also seems strange, and although there were 6 combat jumps from June 44 to March 45 involving Para Battalions I really cant see that he was invloved in 5 of those as they covered Italy, France (twice), Holland, Greece and Germany with 13 Para Battalions involved plus three Pathfinder units. I hope you may be able to add some more information for us like which Para Battalion and what month in 44 he transfered to the Para's, all the best Jason

 

Welcome to the forum

Lesley

 

Lewis,

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Regards
Tom

 

I wonder if there is some confusion here between 'combat' and 'qualifying' jumps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Parachute_Regiment_(United_Kingdom)

 

Hi Lewis,

Welcome to the forum

regards

Keith

 

Hi Lewis and welcome. Your Father's story sounds rather unusual: RA, RN and paras.
Mike.

There in lies the problem, if wasn't for the group photograph and a few of him with mates with their winged berets on I would doubt it as well.
I am sure that there is some embellishment, and some misrembered facts -he's 91 now and won't be recalling anything.
But - he did get his Para wings with all that involved.

 

Sent you a personal message, got some info you will be very interested in....

 

Well, time has passed, I now have these details to add to the information in my first post

Service number 1132761 Roger Outing

003.2 AB KBCY 47.3

Para 390 (XVIII) G 28.11.43

Where does this info lead please?

 

Para 390 (XVIII) G will be the piece from the King's Regulations dealing with his transfer from the Army to the Navy.

Regards
Hugh

 

I applied for my father's Army record June 2021. Although I have his Service number 1132761 Roger Outing, in August 2022 they informed me they have no record of this number, however they found an Army number 14974366 which may relate to my father. The records for 14974366 are with modpersonnelaccessteam@nationalarchives.gov.uk who are still deciding whether they can release the information to me. Today's question is - as he was shown transferring the Army to the Navy on 28.11.1943 would have have been given a new service number transferring back? (if this is the case why could he only remember his original number, which he had for a shorter time?)

 

Any ideas how I can add some detail to the below (MOD will not release his service details until 2036)
Roger Outing service number 14974366
Paras 1944
Hardwick Hall, Chesterfield
Jumps at Manchester Ringway received wings
Salisbury, Parkhurst barracks on Isle of Wight
Boat to Egypt from Southampton
Landed at Port Said, Ismailia to Palestine by train (?)
1945
Boat from Tripoli to Toulon France
Lorries to Arras near Paris
Across from Calais to Dover
Aldershot
Demobbed May 1946
I believe he was a boxer for the
battalion

 

Lewis,

You already have an old thread for him, best not to duplicate matters: First post RA / Navy / Paras I will ask a moderator to merge this thread to that one.

Have you tried Paradata?

What is the reason the MoD have closed his file till 2036?

 

Yes, there wasn't much response to it, so I am to focus on his Para service now I have his Para service number (although he never made any reference to this number even though he had longer than his RA service number)

From MOD "unable to open it because information within this record is exempt under Section 41 of the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act 2000 until 2036."

 

If you have proof of death of your father then use this application format to the National Archives as it is this organisation that is holding the record.

Request MOD Personnel Records

The 2036 date means that no FOI was submitted giving proof of deceased status and the file is closed until 115 years from birth.

However I see that the assumption is that the file is your father - If details have been given as above and the file is still closed then you can assume it was not a match.

Ross

 

"The record has been closed until 115 years have passed since the serviceman’s date of birth, or 25 years after the serviceman has been deceased (if proof of death has been received by this department.) Please be aware that any death certificates sent to the Ministry of Defence are not available to The National Archives."