Force "M" 1943

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by 379/101 HAA, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

    Hi everyone,

    Could anyone enlighten me a little further as to what Force "M" was actually used for? I`ve been digging around on the web but can`t find much.

    Naval-History.net has a few bits, thus:

    3rd September 1943:
    The Staff of Force “M” was disbanded and H.M.S. STAG “A” was closed down. Combined Operations personnel being discharged to H.M.S. SAUNDERS and Landing Craft repair equipment was transferred from STAG “A” to H.M.S. SAUNDERS. Port Party “W” was sent to H.M.S. PHOENIX to be held for future employment.

    The majority of the ships of Force “M” left Suez having completed with their completion of Landing craft and crews for India. L.C.I. (L)’s DILWARA, DUNERA, and L.S.P.EMPIRE PRIDE left on the 2nd. H.M.S. KEREN and L.C.I. (L) ASCANIA, CIRCASSIA, and WINCHESTER CASTLE left on the 3rd, leaving H.M.S. BULOLO and L.S.C. EMPIRE ELAINE to follow when ready.

    September 11th:
    H.M.S. BULOLO and H.M.S. KEREN left Aden for Bombay thus completing the departure of Force “M” for India with H.M.S. BARNABY in company.

    I`ve seen one snippet on the web that suggests these ships left for India forming Force P1, but again, there`s not much. Can anyone add any further detail or perhaps just clarrify exactly what Force M was as Naval stuff isn`t really my field of interest, it just happens that many of these ships were later used in Combined Ops training in India in which my Grandfather`s unit took part.

    Many thanks,

    John
     
  2. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    There are several references in TNA archives - 1 such is:

    Reference: ADM 202/416
    Description:
    Force M: Orders and War Diary
    Date: 1940 Aug.- Sept.
    Held by: The National Archives, Kew
    Former reference in its original department Serial No. 36
    Legal status: Public Record(s)
    Closure status: Open Document, Open Description

    TD
     
  3. Orwell1984

    Orwell1984 Senior Member

  4. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

    Gents,

    Thank you both very much for your replies.

    I`m pretty sure that the Force "M" you both mention is different to the one assembled in 1943. Specifically the ships noted above and as listed on the Naval-History.net website, all moved to Bombay in September 1943. Many of these were ships for Combined Operations, LSI, LSPs etc. I have a feeling they were something to do with preparing for amphibious ops in Burma (which never went ahead), in connection with I.E.F / 33rd Indian Corps? The ships detailed in the Dakar operation appear to be unrelated.

    As you mention several reference in the TNA / Discovery archive relating to Force M, I`ll have a search around in there to see if I can find anything that comes from 1943.

    Thank you again,

    John
     
  5. mallonj67

    mallonj67 New Member

    I read with interest, im looking into Force P1 Sep 1943 (think they BOTH are composits) and Combined ops in HMS Salsette (shore base) & HMS Breganza (shore base) Bombay JUly 1943-July 1944. I specifically, am looking at Combined ops that were supposed to take place but due to few landing craft did not. Specifically onward Sept 1943 - Operation Bullfrog, Jan 1944 Operation Pigstick, Operation Appian..... these and other ops were to be launched by combined operations end 43 and into june 44. The aim was to go offensive via; 'Force P’ was formed in India with (my research interest) - the three RN Beach Commandos A, H and O, in the autumn of 1943. It was intended Force 'P' would land the whole of the British 2nd Division behind the Japanese on on the Mayu Peninsular but the operation was cancelled because over 18 LST that had been en route to India were diverted to ferry reinforcements to the Salerno Landing, Operation Avalanche. Later a similar operation, Operation Pigstick was cancelled because the LST’s then in India were recalled to participate in the Anzio Landings in January 1944. A and O RN Beach Commandos also went back to the Mediterranean but H RN Beach Commando stayed on. They would to take part in the Second Arakan Campaign. Many of the ships you have stated have been interested in were in India during this period. The Second Arakan Campaign started in December 1943 but by January 1944 Chittagong was proving less and less satisfactory as a base for operations. The XV Indian Corps, with headquarters some 8 miles north-east of Maungdaw, was anxious for closer support from the naval force, hence it was proposed that a proper advance base be set up for the boats at Teknaaf, which would be known as advanced base "Millie".
     
  6. 379/101 HAA

    379/101 HAA Ubique

    I`m sure you`ll no doubt know this already if it`s your area of research, but there are a stack of documents at TNA relating to Operation Bullfrog and Pigstick.

    The National Archives | Search results:Operation Bullfrog

    The National Archives | Search results:Operation Pigstick

    I`ve also seen "Bullfrog" related material in some of the Divisional Diaries as well but I still haven`t found any further references to Force "M" though so it remains a bit of a mystery at present.

    Have you ever located or seen any photographic material related to Combined Ops landings at Ratnagiri during this period? Been searching but no luck so far. Also been looking for pic`s related to M.N.B.D.O. (I) late 1943 but again, no luck so far.

    Regards,

    John
     
  7. Aquila45

    Aquila45 New Member

    I am very late to this thread. I have been trying to learn more about HMS Salsette as my Father served there when with Combined Operations (Royal Navy) from late 1942 until mid 1944, and I am quite suprised how little information there is out there. For example, even where the base was actually situated near Bombay. At one time the number of servicemen possibly exceeded 1000 and Rear Admiral Maund was at one time (Mid 1944) in overall charge (Formerly Captain of HMS Ark Royal at time of sinking of the Bismark) while also Director of Combined Ops India, so the base was seemingly quite important in respect of the war in Burma. I believe the base was established shortly after the Invasion of Madagascar (May 1942), with several Officers involved in that action, being stationed at HMS Salsette after sailing on to India.
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Hi

    Have you looked here as well? - HMS Salsette

    TD

    Also
    HyperWar: The Royal Indian Navy (Chapter 11)
    Landing Craft Training Organisation
    During the war, the Royal Indian Navy began training landing craft crews. In time, the landing craft wing developed into an organisation of considerable size, its training centre being then the largest naval establishment in India. It was called H.M.I..S Hamla, located at Mandapam on the extreme southern promontory of India. In June 1943, the first batches of trainees (the Hamla product) formed into flotillas and moved to Bombay for their advanced training in the Royal Navy establishment H.M.S. Salsette. At the end of 1943, the flotillas in Salsette (a group from land wing) were joined by their maintenance parties, trained in the landing craft base at Sassoon Dock, Bombay. This base was entirely manned and run by the Royal Indian Navy. In 1944 it was extended and improved. It was later taken over by the Royal Navy.

    Operation Ironclad - the Invasion of Madagascar - 5 to 7 May 1942
    3 July 1942. Khadakwasla Camp. Arrived here, HMS Salsette, (the Royal Navy Combined Operations base), two days ago after hectic drive in army trucks.

    There is a town called Khadakwasla near to Bombay

    Looks like you have more research to do
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
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  9. Aquila45

    Aquila45 New Member

    Thank you and yes I have previously seen these references. There is no doubt that HMS Salsette was a Royal Navy training establishment manned mainly by RNVR Officers and heavily involved in landing craft training for planned Combined Operations activities in Burma. The Royal Indian Navy were indeed given advanced training at Salsette but their own bases were in Bombay and elsewhere. Despite HMS Salsette appearing as a base in the "Royal Navy Lists" it is not included on the list of Naval Shore Establishments on The National Museum Royal Navy web site, but they state the list is not comprehensive and I am aware of other ommissions. Similarly the Combined Operations own web site makes no reference to HMS Salsette as an overseas base during WW2. The base was however commissioned 1st January 1943 and likely operational much earlier, possibly July 1942. Commissioning dates often came after a base was first established. Lake Khadakwasla may well be the location, as suggested in the diaries of G Bowman to which you refer, but as you can see I have found no readily available official record confirming this location. The Lake is some 100 miles inland from Bombay, but the shore line and nearby jungle provided similar terraine to that found in Burma. Being just 11 miles from Poona (now Pune), where there was a large army base, troops involved in landing craft training could be easily accomodated nearby. It is also the case that Naval Officers were regularly transferred between Salsette and HMS Braganza another shore base, which was located in Bombay, but Braganza was primarily a Royal Navy base, with relatively little involvement with Combined Operations activities. The National Archives at Kew seemingly have no info. on HMS Salsette and searches of the Imperial War Museum web site are similarly unrewarding. Unfortunately the war in Burma is little reported, particularly during the early campaign .
     
  10. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost New Member

     
  11. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost New Member

    My father was an intelligence officer in India and his Section was attached to 3 Special Service Brigade, a combined army/navy commando unit, in 1943. They set sail from India in February 1944 to a 'secret location'. My father's CSM told me that when they were at sea, my father called his section together and opened his sealed orders. The Commando's were going to assault Akyab and my father's section go in after the assault and arrest a number of individuals. The were files with phtogtaphs for each individual. In the end the assult was called off and they landed at Chitagong.

    Do you think that this ties in with the 'Force P' referenced in your post?
     
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  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    welcome to the forum
    the member has not been on the forum for over a year I have sent them a private message showing your query
     

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