german tank at arnhem identity

Discussion in 'General' started by allanh53, Apr 30, 2020.

  1. allanh53

    allanh53 1st Airlanding anti-tank battery royal artillery

    in the film "Theirs is the glory" at 41mins 40seconds.
    ive been trying to identify the german tanks in the street scene i keep coming up in my head they are stugs 1v or 111? could anyone clarify please. couple of screen shots of the tanks

    german tank arnhem 1.jpg german tank arnhem 1.jpg german tank arnhem 2.jpg
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Panther.
    (Ausf. A, I think.Haven't dug.)
    Does look a bit odd in that still.

    Cheers for the youtube link. Not watched it for years.
     
  3. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Hi Allan - I haven't had a chance to look at the film clip but from your stills the tank would appear to be a Panzer Mk V 'Panther'. The bottom photo looks like a British 6pdr wheeled anti-tank gun mounted on an unidentified vehicle.
     
  4. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Think it's just door/window shutters.
    I got confused over a German piece once that was camouflaged with shutters. Very 'vehicle-y' aren't they.
     
  5. JDKR

    JDKR Member

    Just looked at the video. The 6pdr is not in a vehicle! I agree with vP that the Panther looks a bit odd but then the tanks shown moving are definitely the real thing and do look like Ausf.A (Mark A).

    Best

    John
     
  6. idler

    idler GeneralList

    It's a Panther D, isn't it? It looks more like an MG flap than a ball mount.
     
  7. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    Not all German tanks used in the film were relics from the Airborne battle at Oosterbeek. At least one Panther was transported to the area from somewhere else:

    titg.jpg
    Photo courtesy theirs is the glory

    I'm sure there are Arnhem experts around who can give more details on this.
     
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  8. allanh53

    allanh53 1st Airlanding anti-tank battery royal artillery

    ahh your right just had another look at the film i thought it was the gunner who took out the tank but it was the other way.
     
  9. allanh53

    allanh53 1st Airlanding anti-tank battery royal artillery

    the reason i'm asking about this is i'm in the middle of building the street scene with the 6pdr having a go at the tank, i jumped the gun a bit i bought the sturmgeschutz 1V sdkfz163 1/35 scale. thinking it was that ( them dam shutters put me off :) ). but it will do for something else i guess,
     
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  10. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Have you realised it's an 'uncredited' recreation of L/Sgt Baskeyfield's VC action? Googling him may turn up some more material.

    And also the Airborne 6-pr was heavily modified from the standard one so they could fit it in the Horsas.
     
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  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I've a load of dodgy detail shots I took for Bodston of Fort Nelson's Airborne six pdr. .. somewhere. Definitely not 'standard'.
    Will endeavour to find 'em.
     
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  12. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Found this clip a few years ago prompted by the book "Theirs Is The Glory: Arnhem, Hurst and Conflict on Film". You can see one of the Panthers used in the clip (the clip is from when the movie was being filmed and was taken by a local family).



    And from memory I'm sure in the book it tells the story of one of the cast members (a Parachutist who had been a Tankie) driving the running Panther in the film (the budget was very limited and everybody mucked in).

    And no, the book is not in my loft held boxes like most, but on loan with a friend, and I can't go and retrieve it because of the damn coronavirus!

    Hopefully one of the other good folks on WW2 Talk who has the book will be able to post up the pertinent extract from the book (it's a really interesting book!)

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
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  13. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    dear allanh53, don't be disheartened re your purchase of the Stug kit, you could always use it to depict another Arnhem related event.

    Major Cain's VC action

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
  14. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I believe Baskeyfield was credited with at least one Stug down by the river. I'm not sure what was attacking when he was killed but I'd have thought a Stug would be more likely than a Panther.
     
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  15. Wessex_Warrior

    Wessex_Warrior Junior Member

    Hi Alan,

    Baskeyfield and his crew were initially credited with knocking out two tanks and an SP Gun and during this action his crew were killed and he was badly wounded in the leg. After a short respite the Germans attacked again and despite this wound Baskeyfield crawled over to another 6pdr whose crew had also been killed and he knocked out a StuG 3 of Sturmgeschutz Brigade 280 in the Benendenorpsweg about 200m from this gun position before he was killed. The VC citation says the tanks were Tigers and official records state that the SPG was a Ferdinand but apparently there were none in action at this time and indeed the only vehicle definitely identified is the last Stug that was photographed still in place days later and the only vehicle wreck in the area. This information is from "Operation Market Garden : Then and Now" Page 610-612.
    So nobody can say for certain what the tanks were but the StuG 3 has photographic evidence.

    Kind regards,

    Will.
     
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  16. allanh53

    allanh53 1st Airlanding anti-tank battery royal artillery

    thanks everyone will post a pic tomorrow of what ive done so far, feel free with your suggestions thanks
     
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  17. stolpi

    stolpi Well-Known Member

    This is the Stug's destroyed by Cpl Wade on the Benedendorpsweg at Oosterbeek:

    Pic_SPGunWreck.jpg
    Picture courtesy: A wrecked self-propelled gun on the Benedendorpsweg

    See for more background details on his VC and pictures of the location: Victoria Cross Operation Market Garden | Medal of Honor Monday

    And also the site of the 'Vrienden van het Airborne Museum' (Hulzen in een moestuin - Vereniging Vrienden van het Airborne Museum in Dutch) which contains some general information on the deployment of the AT-units at Oosterbeek and the actions of the No.2 Anti-Tank Platoon under Lieutenant Eason of the 2nd Battalion South Staffordshire Regiment, which took up position at the junction of the Acacialaan in the early morning of Sept 20th, 1944 (the day following 'Bloody Tuesday').

    ABM17_Hulzen_moestuin_Baskeyfield_infographic_Tekengebied-1.jpg
    Map courtesy: Hulzen in een moestuin - Vereniging Vrienden van het Airborne Museum

    The funny thing is that this location is on my bicycle training route (Arnhem/Heteren/Arnhem) - I pass it once or twice a week and always (in my mind) greet Baskeyville when I cycle past the turn off at the Acacialaan heading to the railway underpass on my way back to Arnhem. The road at that spot makes a descent. To the right you have an unobstructed view over the river flats towards the Railway Bridge across the Nederrijn.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  18. ducatim901

    ducatim901 Junior Member

    It is indeed a Panther D, the first version that was also deployed at Kursk.
    You can also recognise the drum commanders turret and the flap instead of the ball for the hull-MG.
    Only one complete (exept the engine) left, that one stands as a monument at Breda (The Netherlands).
    Sometimes you wonder that these early types were still in use by the end of '44, they had lots of initial
    technical issues of which some were never really fixed.

    I am not sure it the 1st AB did ever encounter Panthers during the actions around Arnhem and Oosterbeek.
    JK
     
  19. Robert-w

    Robert-w Banned

    I guess it all depends on whether you are trying to recreate a scene from the film or depict exactly what happened in reality. It would appear that there are some differences, as seems to be inevitable in such cases. The filmmakers would be limited by the resources available to them at the time and the technicalities of making a film about violent events without actually hurting anyone. When making a model you are not so constrained. Either choice would seem to be a valid one if one is clear about what the model depicts - the dramatic scene or the event.
     
  20. allanh53

    allanh53 1st Airlanding anti-tank battery royal artillery

    ok here's some pics of what i done so far bit out of focus but the idea is there. DSC_0046.JPG DSC_0048.JPG DSC_0050.JPG DSC_0054.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

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