Graebner Attack at Arnhem

I'm sure many people are aware of this 'attack' on 18th September 1944...quite a major scene in ABTF......so here is a photo of the view going across the bridge south to north.....regretfully I was in a WW2 Dodge at the time rather than whatever Graebner was in.....

 

Than another a bit closer to the hump...as you can see not a very good view of the 'Britsh side' of the bridge yet.....

 

Here's a pic from my trip in 2006.

 

Nice pics fellas! Do you think Graebner's "Gung Ho" attitude had anything to do with the fact that he had recently been awarded the Knights Cross or was he just "that sort of soldier"?

 

Graebner's attitude was most likely due to his prior successes against the English using the same bold armored recon company tactics. In fact, he was awarded the Knight's Cross for doing the same sort of thing previously. He figured that it would work again..

 

Graebner's attitude was most likely due to his prior successes against the English using the same bold armored recon company tactics. In fact, he was awarded the Knight's Cross for doing the same sort of thing previously against the Paras. He figured that it would work again..

Thanks for that mate! I guess he chanced his arm once too often!

 

Graebner's attitude was most likely due to his prior successes against the English using the same bold armored recon company tactics. In fact, he was awarded the Knight's Cross for doing the same sort of thing previously against the Paras. He figured that it would work again..
When did that supposedly happen and against which Paras? Gräbner was awarded the Knights Cross on August 23, 1944 for his conduct during the Mortain battles (a full month before the Arnhem battle started).

 

When did that supposedly happen and against which Paras? Gräbner was awarded the Knights Cross on August 23, 1944 for his conduct during the Mortain battles (a full month before the Arnhem battle started).

My typo. He made a surprise counterattack against the British at Noyers Bocage with his fast unit and overran them.

At Arnhem, he made a similar judgement call. But this time it sealed his fate.

 

Do you think Graebner's "Gung Ho" attitude had anything to do with the fact that he had recently been awarded the Knights Cross or was he just "that sort of soldier"?
Nope, he simply wasn't aware that the British paras had already reached and secured the bridge. Wilfried Schwarz was Ic of 9.SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen and Ia of 2.SS Panzer Korps and as such the person who gave Gräbner his orders: cross the bridge before the British paras reached it and form a defensive line west of the bridge.

 

At Arnhem, he made a similar judgement call. But this time it sealed his fate.
No judgement call, he had his orders to cross and secure the bridge. He simply did not know that the paras were already there.

 

In "It never snows in September", Kershaw says that he knew that they were there and that he made the call.

 

Nope, he simply wasn't aware that the British paras had already reached and secured the bridge. Wilfried Schwarz was Ic of 9.SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen and Ia of 2.SS Panzer Korps and as such the person who gave Gräbner his orders: cross the bridge before the British paras reached it and form a defensive line west of the bridge.

What book did you gather this from?

 

That's an old book and Kershaw is wrong. See my previous message: Wilfried Schwarz gave him the order. He was the divisional Ic (chief of staff)

 

What book did you gather this from?
You only believe in books? Schwarz said he gave him the order. Gräbner was aware that the British paras were close to the northern side of the bridge but did not think they were in position at the bridge yet.

 

You only believe in books? Schwarz said he gave him the order.

I'm not doubting you or anything, so I assume that you've talked to this man?

 

You only believe in books? Schwarz said he gave him the order. Gräbner was aware that the British paras were close to the northern side of the bridge but did not think they were in position at the bridge yet.

There is a lot of subsitnence in this view, as Grabner had left Arnhem to go south and only returned North a matter of hours later. Arnhem was quite when he left, as the Para's had dropped 8 miles away. He was aware of the Quick reaction force depolyment to Oosterbeek and the railway line defence positions, but at that point the River Rd was still unprotected, with the 1st action being seen at the Railway bridge.

 

Interesting, Kershaw explains the situation as if Grabner had a gung-ho attitude and was confident that he could "bounce" the paras thanks to his firepower, speed, and armor.

 

I'm not doubting you or anything, so I assume that you've talked to this man?
Nope, I did not. The only Hohenstauffen veteran I ever contacted was their doc: the late Egon Skalka.

 

Nope, he simply wasn't aware that the British paras had already reached and secured the bridge. Wilfried Schwarz was Ic of 9.SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen and Ia of 2.SS Panzer Korps and as such the person who gave Gräbner his orders: cross the bridge before the British paras reached it and form a defensive line west of the bridge.

I need to get a better understanding of this.

1) Graebner's 9 S.S. Reconnaissance Battalion, was returning back from their scouting mission to Nijmegen on the 18th. Correct?

2) Didn't Frost's men make an attempt to capture the Southern end of the bridge during the night of the 17th & 18th?

If the above is correct, I would assume that Graebner would know about the Para's being on the Bridge. The Germans defending the Southern end, must've told Graebner about the attacks. No?