Graebner Attack at Arnhem

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by airborne medic, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. cptpies

    cptpies Member

    Funnily enough I'm reading Kershaws book at the moment. Kershaw has it that Graebners orders were to go and bolster the Nijmegen defences as this is where the battle would be decided. But on finding Nijmegen quiet Graebner left a couple of his 75mm armed half tracks there and turned back for Arnhem against his orders, knowing full well that action was taking place there but not necessarily at the bridge. Haven't got to the bit about his arrival at the bridge yet so I'll see what it says about liason with the southern bridge garrison when I do.
     
  2. Stig O'Tracy

    Stig O'Tracy Senior Member

  3. cptpies

    cptpies Member

    OK I got to the bit about Graebners return to the bridge. Kershaw does say that much of this is conjecture as no documentary evidence survives other than veterans accounts. No mention is made of liason with the bridge garrison but firing was evident so Graebner must have known the Northern end of the bridge was in enemy hands. About 22 vehicles formed up for the attack and advanced at 9am, interestingly Graebner was in a captured Humber AC probably to aid his own force in recognizing him. Most vehicles did actually make it on to the Northern ramp the attack continued until about 12 but was decimated by grenades being dropped into the open halftracks. Graebners body was never found although the Humber was recovered after the battle.
     
  4. Ruimteaapje

    Ruimteaapje Member

    It seems clear that Wilfried Schwarz and Viktor Gräbner were aware that the British para's had entered Arnhem and thus decided that a defensive line should be formed to keep them away from the bridge. Either that or Schwarz is twisting the facts a bit to make the death of Gräbner look less stupid. But I tend to believe he wasn't lying.
     
  5. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    I need to get a better understanding of this.

    1) Graebner's 9 S.S. Reconnaissance Battalion, was returning back from their scouting mission to Nijmegen on the 18th. Correct?

    2) Didn't Frost's men make an attempt to capture the Southern end of the bridge during the night of the 17th & 18th?

    If the above is correct, I would assume that Graebner would know about the Para's being on the Bridge. The Germans defending the Southern end, must've told Graebner about the attacks. No?

    1. Yes correct. On the afternoon of 17th Graebner plus other vehicles wnet to Nijmegen.
    2. There were two attempts to take the south end of the bridge- both beaten back.
    I would agree that Graebner knew about the bridge being held but guess he could force this way through.....
    The best story IMHO of this action is in the Society of Friends of the Airborne Museum ministory with newsletter 90 SS-Panzer-Aufklarungs-Abteilung 9 and the Arnhem road bridge by Marcel Zwarts...
     
  6. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    I thought this would be the most appropriate place to post this picture as it concerns Graebner. I was lucky enough to recently be given a huge batch of "arnhem" photos, many of which I have not seen before and this one fits here I think. Has anyone seen it before, maybe in Kershaw's book? It's a long while since I read it and I can't remember (or find it at the moment!! :unsure:). The note attached to the photo reads "This is the building that stood on the parade ground in Hoenderloo when Grabner re-fitted his Recce Unit."
     
  7. Mike S.

    Mike S. Junior Member

    Is there someone who can provide me with a copy-scan of Marcel Zwarts article of the Friends Society Airborne Museum Newsletter? It would be appreciated.

    TIA,

    Mike S.
     
  8. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    Is there someone who can provide me with a copy-scan of Marcel Zwarts article of the Friends Society Airborne Museum Newsletter? It would be appreciated.

    TIA,

    Mike S.

    Mike,
    At the risk of sounding mercenary, I'll happily sell you a copy of said ministory...my usual terms apply....£1 plus postage to Society members and £2 plus postage to non-members.....please pm me if interested.....
     
  9. TomTAS

    TomTAS Very Senior Member

    Hi Ruimteaapje

    Your right the Germans didn't think that any Paras had gotten to the bridge, they thought the main force was 1 Para trying to reach them.. The main force of Germans left a small space which Frost and his man pass the blocking German Forces
     
  10. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    I've been reading about Graebner's foray south to Nijmegen and then back to Arnhem. Is it true that Graebnar's initial foray south was 5 hours after the first landings had taken place, and that Frost's men hadnt got to the bridge at that point? Two things spring to mind, the fact that a German Armored column was able to travel unmolested from Arnhem to Nijmegen and back again, and also the fact that the Paras took so long to get from the drop zones to the Bridge, this is not a criticism of the Paratroops but the siting of the drop zones so far from the bridge was a huge error. I would also give the Germans credit for the defense they put up too.
     
  11. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    I think it is fair to say you are correct to some extent....Graebner's recce was I do not 5 hours after the landings but a bit less than this perhaps 3 to 4....the thing I feel you need to consider is that there were no 'enemy troops' between the south bank of the Rhnie at Arnhem and Nijmegen on the 17th....well excpet perphas the few waifs and strays from 1st AB Div who landed short......
     
  12. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    The original post predates the publication of Scott Revell and Bob Gerritsen's excellent book "Retake Arnhem Bridge"
    I would suggest that this would be worth reading as it may help answer some of the questions being posed.
    In the book it states that Grebner received orders from Schwarz, via radio, on the morning of the 18th telling him to return and "break the British defences at the northern end of the bridge".

    John
     
  13. TomTAS

    TomTAS Very Senior Member

    Hi John,

    Scott is a good friend of mine I have that book signed by both of them....

    Cheers
    Tom
    PS Happy New Year ;)
     
  14. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Tom

    Happy New Year to you also.

    Likewise - The book is certainly an excellent publication. Niall (AM) and I spent a most enjoyable evening with Scott at Bob G's house when he was over from Australia (not sure now if that was in 2008 or 2009).

    John
     
  15. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    I still think that its amazing that Graebner's initial foray towards Nijmegen was free of air attack on the 17th. Given the Allies use of Tactical Air Power and the importance of keeping the road free, you would imagine that road would have been crawling with "Jabos", so to speak.
     
  16. TomTAS

    TomTAS Very Senior Member

    Hi John,

    2009 we droven around Holland in a little Fiat 500 which was a lot of fun....

    Cheers
    Tom
    Ps Scott will again be over this year for Arnhem...
     
  17. kingarthur

    kingarthur Well-Known Member

    Hi John,

    2009 we droven around Holland in a little Fiat 500 which was a lot of fun....

    Cheers
    Tom
    Ps Scott will again be over this year for Arnhem...


    Tom I need my book signed perhaps you could introduce me to him:)
     
  18. COMMANDO

    COMMANDO Senior Member

  19. TomTAS

    TomTAS Very Senior Member

    Hi Dave,

    Sure mate no worries and does that mean you don't have it signed yet LOL ;)

    Cheers
    Tom
     
  20. Philip Reinders

    Philip Reinders Very Senior Member

    good link Commando, lot of information on this
     

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