An odd post over on Axis History Forum has got me frowning. It suggests that Gurkha and Indian troops were involved in either the liberation or subsequent rehabilitation of Wolfsburg in Germany. My personal understanding was that there were no Gurkha or Indian Army units in 21 Army Group's order of battle. I am though thinking in terms of units, and I've learned enough to know there's always a surprise to be had, even when you think you're familiar with a particular subject. Also, a quick Google says that Wolfsburg was liberated by the US Army in April 1945, before becoming part of the British zone a few months later. Wolfsburg - Wikipedia Has anyone come across references to Gurkhas or Indian troops specifically in Northwest Europe in 1944-45, or post VE-Day? Gary
I think you're right to frown. I've never heard of Indian or Ghurka troops under 21st Army Group. In Italy, of course, but that wouldn't get them anywhere near Wolfsburg (now I know where it is!)
In the Second World War there were no fewer than 40 Gurkha Battalions in British Service The Second World War 1939 to 1945. During the Second World War over 130,000 Gurkhas served around the world. As part of the 8th Army they took part in all the major battles in North Africa. In Italy, they distinguished themselves at Monte Cassino, in the breaking of the Gothic Line, and at Tavoleto and Medicina. In Asia, they fought in Malaya and Singapore, were part of the Chindit operations and won nine Victoria Crosses in Field Marshall Slim’s 14th Army as it recaptured Burma from the Japanese, including the Battles of Imphal, Kohima, Mogaung and Tamandu. Indian Independence 1947. On Indian independence in 1947, the ten Gurkha regiments were divided between India and Britain. A tripartite agreement between Britain, Nepal and India laid the foundations for Gurkha terms and conditions of service. The 2nd, 6th, 7th and 10th Gurkha Rifles became part of the British Army, with the rest becoming part of the army of independent India. British Gurkhas moved their base to Malaya, with the Training Depot at Sungai Petani, Kedah. In 1952 the Gurkhas became part of the newly formed 17 Gurkha Infantry Division. The Second World War The Gurkhas | National Army Museum https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Gurkha-Rifles/ https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/corps-regiments-and-units/brigade-of-gurkhas/gurkha-history/ Gurkhas and the Second World War - The Gurkha Museum - Winchester
Well Italy is arguably very much in Europe but this is the first time I hear of Indian army troops under 21 Army Group. In any case Wolfsburg was very much liberated by 9th Army (US), so the AHF post is just nonsense. Wolfsburg | Das Jahr 1945 All the best Andreas
No, my point wasn’t that they were in Europe…..my point was that Gurkha’s were NOT ONLY INDIAN Army as stated in Jitter Party’s post…..during ww2 they were in British service……and in 1947, when India became its own county, India and Britain and Nepal all agree to the split of the Gurkha regiments between them. BUT, the original question was asking about Indian or Gurkha troops near Wolfsburg……which I do not know the answer………BUT (another but)…..Indian Troops DID SERVE in Europe (France), albeit only before Dunkirk and at Dunkirk some were captured and became POW’s. Four companies of the Royal Indian Army Service Corps (RIASC), plus headquarters and support detachments. When the British army went to France at the beginning of the war, it was a totally mechanized force, which was revolutionary for its time. But as soon as they got into the field, they realized they were having a problem moving supplies and equipment over rough ground. So, the call went out to the empire for animal transport companies. The empire at the time included India and what's now Pakistan, and a force was assembled — labeled K6 — to provide the vital role of mule and horse transport. These men were not frontline soldiers, but they were all long-service professionals in what was an all-volunteer force. They were trained to fight, and in the chaos of the Battle of France in May and June of 1940, they did fight, took casualties and some of the men were decorated for bravery. These included Jemadar Maula Dad Khan who was awarded the Indian Distinguished Service Medal for gallantry. His citation reads: "On 24 May 1940 when approaching Dunkerque, Jemadar Maula Dad Khan showed magnificent courage, coolness and decision. When his troop was shelled from the ground and bombed from the air by the enemy he promptly reorganised his men and animals, got them off the road and under cover under extremely difficult conditions. It was due to this initiative and the confidence he inspired that it was possible to extricate his troop without loss in men or animals." The K6 soldiers were noted for maintaining their discipline and cohesion through the chaos. There were Indian troops at Dunkirk, too The Royal Indian Army Service Corps » Dunkirk 1940 - The Before, The Reality, The Aftermath When they disembarked at Marseilles on 26th December 1939, they totalled 1723 men and around 2000 mules, commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel Reginald William Welfare Hills, newly promoted for the occasion. After a few days to acclimatise and organise, the companies were dispersed by rail across France. 25th Company and 32nd Company were assigned to work with II Corps and I Corps respectively, near Lille in northern France. Meanwhile, 29th Company went to the Lines of Communication command in Le Mans in North-western France, while 22nd Company stayed near Marseilles with the 47 Supply Dept Section (SDS) for the moment. The HQ and the Reinforcement Unit were also at Le Mans. And a link to a PDF on information about Force K6 https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/121172/BowmanG.pdf?sequence=1 AND, I’m NOT saying they were at Wolfsburg, I’m just saying that indeed India Army Troops did serve in France and in fact are buried in France and Germany R.W.W. Hills (Commanding Officer), ‘War Diary, HQ Force K6’, 1940, WO 167/1433 ———, ‘War Diary, HQ Force K6’, 1941, WO 179/5880 ———, ‘War Diary, HQ Force K6’, 1942, WO 179/5881 ———, ‘War Diary, HQ Force K6’, 1943, WO 179/5882 ———, ‘War Diary, HQ Force K6’, 1940, WO 179/5879 ———, ‘War Diary, HQ Force K6’, 1940, WO 167/1433 Just trying to ensure we honour ALL Allied troops that fought in the Second World War….and we don’t forget any of them or their contribution
Temujin . Gurhkas were on the establishment of the British Indian Army not the British Army pre-partition. JITTER PARTY is correct. Gurkhas were Indian troops during WW2.
Thanks for the comments folks. It is probably just a misremembrance or misinterpretation of a family story. I'll risk a response over on AHF. Re my title of 'Gurkha and/or Indian Army troops', I was seeking to draw a distinction regarding the particular recruitment of the Gurkhas from Nepal rather than from India. Gary
It is very common for this distinction to be made between Indian and Gurkha troops. In most senses it is, of course, a false distinction. Gurkhas were members of the Indian Army until 1947, and they are now members of both armies as Owen states above. In WW2 they were only Indian Army. Even so, this distinction has long existed; think of Wingate (and his equally misguided mentor, Churchill) and their attitude to Indian troops. To me it smacks of a peculiar form of racism – Gurkha good and Indian bad – which I don’t really understand. We don’t need to recite the achievements of the Indian Army in WW2, but we do perhaps need to remind ourselves that the Indian Army had no Gurkha artillery, engineers, service corps, etc. and that the majority of the infantry battalions were not Gurkhas. They did make great infantrymen, but then so did Sikhs, Punjabi Muslims, Jats, Rajputs, etc. Think of some of the great battalions of the 14th Army; 1/11 Sikh, 7/10 Baluch, 4/12 FFR, 2/1 Punjab, which had the highest number of gallantry awards to an IA battalion, I believe. It is a long list. Rant over.
during the the battle of Gazala, 2/4th PWO Gurkha Rifles, suffered heavily casualties with only 1 officer and 158 men leaving Cauldron. Among those captured was battalion CO with the fall of Tobruk, 2/7th Gurkha Rifles was among those troops forced to capitulate with very few succeeded to escape capture at Mersa Matruh and during subsequent retreat toward Alamein, 2/8th Gurkha Rifles lost over 400 men, most of them captured at Deir el Shein, 2/3rd QAO Gurkha Rifles lost 6 men and 255 rifleman, some of those captured From Alamain till the end of the war, number of Gurkhas from other units was captured but bulk of those captured by Germans were from these four battalions. Some of those succeeded to escape or were liberated soon after. For example 275 men from 2/7th Gurkha Rifles were liberated in November 1942 at Mersa Matruh. But number of those captured were sent to Germany. In book "Gurkhas at War" by J.P Cross & Buddhiman Gugung, there is nice recollection by Bilbahadur Thapa, from 2/8th Gurkha Rifles, who was sent to Germany after he was captured in the North Africa. At the end of the war he, and others from his camp, was send toward advancing US troops which eventually liberated them. He spend a week in the US camp n Germany, then sent to Paris, where he stayed for 4 days, and than to UK. From there he finally returned to India.
I agree. With good training and competent leaderships, both Indian and Gurkha units will, and did, perform well. In my opinion, the only period when Gurkha units performed somewhat better than their Indian counterparts, was in the Far East during 1942 - early 1943. But this was mostly due the fact that Gurkha battalions were much less affected by rapid expansion of the Indian Army than Indian battalions, and thus were able to keep larger proportion of their experienced men and, even more important, experienced VCOs and NCOs. For example, prior to its deployment to Burma, 2/5th Royal Gurkha Rifles (F.F.), received draft of 120 men to bring a battalion to the full strength. 70 of them arrived directly from the Regimental Center, while 50 were transferred from the newly created 4th Battalion. On the other hand, 1/11th Sikh Regiment, received 400 recruits to bring battalion to the full strength, majority of those with just five months of service in the Army, when it was sent to Burma just one month after 2/5th RGR (F.F.). So it is not surprising that during this period, some Gurkha battalions performed much better than Indian ones, but, once training and replacement/reinforcement process were improved, this changed and both performed admirably during the late Burma campaign.
The 5 months training is in the context of the normal recruit training period being 9 months. Amongst other things, most if not all would have had to learn a common language.
... BUT, the original question was asking about Indian or Gurkha troops near Wolfsburg……which I do not know the answer………BUT (another but)…..Indian Troops DID SERVE in Europe (France), albeit only before Dunkirk and at Dunkirk some were captured and became POW’s. Four companies of the Royal Indian Army Service Corps (RIASC), plus headquarters and support detachments. ... Thanks Temujin You can find out much more about these men (Force K6) by reading my book 'The Indian Contingent', published in the UK by The History Press, and in India by Pan Mcmillan
