Hello - PAIFORCE help!

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by katrb, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve / Kat
    You are probably right about the transfer to the MEF to deal with the Greeks as there was a Greek Mutiny at that time - and very few British Troops to deal with it so the Indians were stuck with the job and a few people were hurt - as it is entirely possibly that he was attached to a Tank squadron in the Light Aid Detachment to deal with immediate repairs etc, and so got in the way of a mortar shell/ bomb etc

    The Greek's "reward" was to be shipped to Italy and just in time to take part in a minor battle to capture the town of Rimini - much to the annoyance of both 1st Canadian Division and ourselves as the Greeks were given the credit for the fight .......Canadians are still smarting about that as we fought for a month - with too many casualties - then they come along - and we had to stand back and let them enter the city for being "good lads"....! Then they went off back to Greece as the Communists were trying to take over....

    The Britsh 31st Tank bde- I thought was formed much earlier than 1945 as they were involved at Hill 112 - or at least some of the early battles..

    Cheers
     
  2. katrb

    katrb Junior Member

    Steve / Kat
    You are probably right about the transfer to the MEF to deal with the Greeks as there was a Greek Mutiny at that time - and very few British Troops to deal with it so the Indians were stuck with the job and a few people were hurt - as it is entirely possibly that he was attached to a Tank squadron in the Light Aid Detachment to deal with immediate repairs etc, and so got in the way of a mortar shell/ bomb etc

    The Greek's "reward" was to be shipped to Italy and just in time to take part in a minor battle to capture the town of Rimini - much to the annoyance of both 1st Canadian Division and ourselves as the Greeks were given the credit for the fight .......Canadians are still smarting about that as we fought for a month - with too many casualties - then they come along - and we had to stand back and let them enter the city for being "good lads"....! Then they went off back to Greece as the Communists were trying to take over....

    The Britsh 31st Tank bde- I thought was formed much earlier than 1945 as they were involved at Hill 112 - or at least some of the early battles..

    Cheers

    WOW Tom - that's an amazing piece of history in that post! Still trying to take that in!

    I do know that there are pictures of my Grandad with all nations! Must get these and post them on here!!

    Again thank you! I'm blown away (no pun intended).
     
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Kat - that is what the forum is all about - Ancient History ! - that is why I get so uptight when people try to revise it - just for a few dollars -

    This Greek thing wasn't the only mutiny in Egypt as the 78th Division was also sent over there from Italy - for a "rest" - it lasted a whole month then they were on the ships back to Italy just in time for the last part of the Gothic Line battles - it has to be said probably but - by that time our allies were in Egypt and prices had gone sky high and the poor Tommies were sidelined and like other recent events in the Uk - they objected and fought back ...
    Cheers
     
  4. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve -
    thought there was something odd about 31st Armoured Bde not being formed until 1945- you are right BUT they were in fact re-organised from 31st TANK bde as most independent TANK bdes were converted to ARMOURED bdes including our own 21st TANK bde out in Italy - the 25th TANK bde was broken up at the same timewith 142 RAC being disbanded = NIH taking the place of 145th RAC in 21st Bde and 51st RTR being made into an armoured/ engineer Battalion with "funnies"

    Hard to find 31st initial formation but they seemed to be in 1st corps for the landings in late June along with 34th TANK bde and between them they had 107-147- 153 RAC with Churchills in 34th Tank bde - and what appears to be 9thRTR -7th RTR and possibly 107 - again RAC - all of whom took heavy losses at hill 112 and beyond and probably caused an amount of re-organisation with regiments and battalions changing places - appears to be only three Tank bdes in the early days in NWE those two and 6th Guards Tank bde and shuttling between divisions to lend heavy support
    Cheers
     
  5. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve - finally found the 31st TANK bde hiding in 79th Div - with 141st RAC - 1st Fife & Forfars and 1st Canadian carriers - that was in September around Ahrnem time

    Later at the Rhine crossing - they were now 31st ARMOURED with 1st F&F's - 141 RAC - 7th RTR - and two Canadian Kangaroos units..

    knew they had to be somewhere as 79th also had 33rd Armoured with 4th and 11th RTR
    Cheers
     
  6. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Steve - finally found the 31st TANK bde hiding in 79th Div - with 141st RAC - 1st Fife & Forfars and 1st Canadian carriers - that was in September around Ahrnem time

    Later at the Rhine crossing - they were now 31st ARMOURED with 1st F&F's - 141 RAC - 7th RTR - and two Canadian Kangaroos units..

    knew they had to be somewhere as 79th also had 33rd Armoured with 4th and 11th RTR
    Cheers

    Thanks for that, Tom.

    So the 31st did exist prior to 1945, but not with that designation?!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Steve -
    What many don't understand is the two types of Tank Regiments involved in ww2 - the RAC badge really illustrates the concept of the heavy Churchills were the mailed fist - to thump down the enemies defenses - whereas the arrows denote the speedy pursuit tanks which then entered through the hole made by the heavy mob and swanned around behind his lines creating mayhem- thus the heavy mob were in TANK bdes supporting Infantry - and the Pursuit tanks were in Armoured bdes.

    This concept was finally obsolete later in ww2 when the Tanks changed to "Battle " Tanks with heavier - and faster types - with bigger guns at long last - such as Comet -Chieftain- Challenger and thus all became Armoured e.g 31st AND 34th

    Cheers
     
  8. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Steve -
    What many don't understand is the two types of Tank Regiments involved in ww2 - the RAC badge really illustrates the concept of the heavy Churchills were the mailed fist - to thump down the enemies defenses - whereas the arrows denote the speedy pursuit tanks which then entered through the hole made by the heavy mob and swanned around behind his lines creating mayhem- thus the heavy mob were in TANK bdes supporting Infantry - and the Pursuit tanks were in Armoured bdes.

    This concept was finally obsolete later in ww2 when the Tanks changed to "Battle " Tanks with heavier - and faster types - with bigger guns at long last - such as Comet -Chieftain- Challenger and thus all became Armoured e.g 31st AND 34th

    Cheers

    Hello Tom,

    It's only through reading notes like yours and on this forum, that the distinction became apprarent to me. I knew that some tanks were used for Infantry support and some for pusuit, etc., but the distinction between tank and armoured brigades had always been a mystery before.

    Many thanks,

    Steve.
     
  9. katrb

    katrb Junior Member

    Just to say a massive thank you to each and everyone of you that helped.

    Had a chat with the family to confirm my findings and they agree it all makes sense as to his stories.

    The two 'sick visits' triggered a memory - one was the war wounds another was his appendicitis that was taken out in a tent in the desert! Not sure if his story was slightly built up by him but we recall him saying he got a swig of whiskey instead of anesthetic.

    He never applied for his war medals as he felt he wasn't worthy considering the people that died. The family have decided that we should apply and pass then to future generations to make sure his heroics and everyone else in WW2 will never be forgotten.

    Thank you again, not just to everyone in this forum but to all that fought to give the next generation and others after a free country. I Salute you x
     

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