Help figuring out uniforms, medals, badges, vehicles!

Discussion in 'General' started by Sanne, Jun 9, 2022.

  1. AB64

    AB64 Senior Member

    For Parachute operations the dispatchers would normally be from one of the RASC AD Companies (although I'm not sure if there were exceptions) and not sure where they fit in with qualifying
     
  2. Sanne

    Sanne Member

    Gosh, I would have never thought of that connection! This must be one of the vehicles the Jewish Brigade used. Actually, I also see some Hebrew letters - and unfortunately I don’t read Hebrew, but I can likely find someone who does.
    I think there is some very fine detective work in this thread - thank you very much, I feel like I have reached a fair amount of insights. Next up: Waiting for service papers.
    Does anyone know if I should apply at Ministry of Defence or National Archives? Perhaps both? I understand that they are in the process of moving information from one to the other.
     
  3. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Apply to UK MOD in the first instance - only a very small portion of files are with National Archives at the moment and MOD will advise if your fathers file is one of them.

    I think the MOD link was posted on one of your other topics.

    Steve
     
    Sanne likes this.
  4. Sanne

    Sanne Member

    It was - thank you for the advice.

    Sincerely,
    Sanne
     
  5. Sanne

    Sanne Member

    Hello again,

    I just thought I would do an update, in case anyone is interested - I received a lot of help in this thread :)
    As I mentioned above, I sent in a request for my father’s service records. However, it was mentioned in this thread that someone actually included an interview with my father in a book. I was able to procure the book, and get in contact with its author.
    As it turns out, the author of the book did some solid research, and one of the things he did was to procure my father’s service records. The medals he received are mentioned in them. Oddly, the medals do not correspond with the papers: On the one hand it is claimed that he spent a large portion of the war in home depot, but on the other hand, he was decorated for participating in war efforts in France and Germany.
    So the story I was most of all hoping to corroborate is still lost. I also got in touch with AJEX, but they had no records either, and have referred me to the IDF, even if it is highly unlikely that they would have any info.
    My last long shot is that perhaps there could be some mention of my father in the royal archives, since the DSO was given to him by queen (then princess) Elizabeth. However, the gentleman who wrote the book says that my father would most likely have been working under SOE (Special Operations Executive), and if that is the case, there might not be any written records about his experiences at all. So alas, not much hope that my father’s story will ever be anything else than a family anecdote.

    All the best,
    Sanne
     
  6. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    Thanks for getting back to us with an update - you may not believe me when I say not all posters do so:reallymad:

    If the Danish author has let you have copies of your fathers service papers please feel free to post them on the forum as members may be able to give you a better insight.

    All the best.

    Steve
     
    Sanne likes this.
  7. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    Do you have copies of the records? I would love to see them if you have.

    Kind regards
     
    Sanne likes this.
  8. Sanne

    Sanne Member

    Hello,

    I still do not have the records. I had already requisitioned them when I got in touch with the gentleman who did an interview with my father, so I thought I would just wait for them, rather than putting him through the trouble of sending them to me.
    Meanwhile, I have been doing a lot of reading :)
    I finished a book that was recommended to me in this forum: "Wheels in the storm" by Wellesley Aron. Unfortunately, although Mr Aron was also from Palestine, he was not in the same unit as my father. Their paths would only have crossed a few times (two times, to be exact). But he mentions my father's division, so the book did give me an idea of my father's time line, which was very helpful.
    I have also read The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944 (Rick Atkinson), Pendulum of war: The Three Battles of El Alamein (Niall Barr) and The Desert War (Alan Moorehead). I am currently reading X-Troop, which I really recommend for anyone interested in special operations during the war, and next on my reading list is D-Day.
    When I receive the records, I will need to look into getting the war diaries from the units my father belonged to. I still have a lot of things that do not seem to add up.
    Thank you very much for your interest! I will be sure to keep you posted :)
     
  9. Sanne

    Sanne Member

    Oh, one more thing: In the first week of August, I'm driving down to Normandy to check if I can make sense of any of my father's descriptions.
     
  10. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Just to help members who come along to help it may be worth editing his service number in your very first post, it is different to the medal certificate.
     
  11. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Registers can be download from The National Archives:
    Browse records of other archives | The National Archives
     
    Sanne likes this.
  12. Sanne

    Sanne Member

    Thank you - I’ve looked through them, but no luck.
    Frankly, I’m losing hope that I will ever be able to determine where that 1946 DSO came from. It’s too bad they don’t have army number on them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  13. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    Some problems I see straight away:-

    - The DSO was awarded to Officers only, there is no record of him being an officer and not a scrap of evidence to suggest that the DSO was awarded.
    - One could not wear both the Aircrew Europe Star and the France & Germany Star. The recipient would wear whichever star they qualified for first and the second star would be represented as a clasp on the ribbon. It would be very unlikely that the Clerk that crossed the relevant medals on the slip would have made such a mistake.
    - Its extremely implausible that his service records were falsified to somehow aid his work with SOE (talk about deep cover!). I can almost guarantee you that if you were to procure the service records of any SOE, SAS, SBS, Commando etc officer or other rank from the Second World War you would see every detail of their service laid bare.

    If the chap you have been in contact with has your fathers service records, why not just ask him for copies? He could even take photos of the pages of his phone camera and send them to you via email?

    I really hope that you come up trumps with your research and that its all proved true.

    Kind regards
    Emps
     
  14. Sanne

    Sanne Member

    Hi Emps,

    This exploration of my father’s war experience is certainly a roller coaster ride, I can tell you as much.
    I am presently aware of all the things you mention. However, if my father was lying, I need a complete re-write of my childhood (which was very much affected by his experiences during the war) and of how I see my father.
    I realise you are just stating what everyone is no doubt thinking here, but perhaps I could ask you to be a bit sensitive about it, as it is a lot for me to swallow.

    In regard to the papers you mention: The (now very elderly) gentleman whom I thought had my father’s papers has either lost them, or is not willing to help.

    I am currently still open to my father *not* being a liar, although I understand your scepticism, and even share it to some extent. That is because of how pervasive the lies would have had to be: Faking nightmares, having learned Nazi songs for no other reason than to fool his 7-year-old child, learning morse code… It’s a lot. And it’s not just me he would have had to fool - the royal families of Britain and Denmark. So yeah, it does not sound plausible. But if it’s at all possible for me to get either confirmation or the opposite, I will do so.

    Best,
    Sanne
     
  15. EmpireUmpire

    EmpireUmpire Well-Known Member

    Hi Sanne,

    I think your best bet is to wait for his service records to come through, and then you will have the answers you need. I would like to make a couple of things clear though - I am absolutely by no means calling your father a liar, and I truly do wish you the best in unravelling his wartime experiences. Unfortunately, sensitivity is not my strong suit sometimes - for that I apologise, though I meant no malice.

    Researching your ancestors wartime experiences can be frustrating to say the least and plenty of anomalies occur.

    Paper trails leading to answers will exist, its finding them thats the challenge.

    Regards
    Emps
     
    Sanne and CL1 like this.
  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Sanne as Emps quite rightly states the service records are key.
    We have and see family memories that are skewed over the course of a generation and the story then sticks in familylore.

    Hopefully the service records will flesh it out


    regards
    Clive
     
    Sanne likes this.
  17. Sanne

    Sanne Member

    Emps, I’m sorry if I came off a bit cranky, but as I said, this is pretty emotional for me (also, English is not my first language, and finer points can be tricky).
    I really am keeping my fingers crossed that MOD has my father’s service records - but I am also trying to prepare myself mentally that they might not…
    I am also thinking about applying to SOE, though I don’t know exactly how to go about it.
    I have tried contacting Israeli Defence Force, as surely they would have something, but sadly, they are not replying.
    I am extremely grateful for all the help that I have been given here at the forum. Without it, I would probably have wasted my time barking up the wrong trees :)

    Best,
    Sanne
     

Share This Page