I discovered recently that my grandfather spent time in a concentration camp for a short while in 1940 before he escaped and joined the resistance. My grandfather's name was Jacques Ernest Dumas, he was a well known cartoonist who went by the name of Marijac (this was also his code name whilst in the resistance). I have asked both my mother and aunt but because his war history never interested them!!!! Can anyone help me find out which concentration camp he was in please? My grandfather survived and died in 1994. Is there some list somewhere where all names of concentration camp prisoners is kept? I don't even know where it was and I can not ask my grandmother as she died many years ago. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you.
When you say Concentration Camp are you sure that is what it was? At that time the Germans would of had PoW camps to house French prisoners as well as Labour Camps but sometimes they are all 'lumped' together and described as concentration camps when there is a difference between them, not that the poor souls held within would of noticed much difference. And then you have the detention camps run by the French which were then taken over by the Germans. It will prove to be very difficult to find what camp he found himself in unless there is something in a French archive. There isn't, as far as I know, a complete list of people who were detained in any number of different camp types. Such a list would be a mammoth undertaking. Hinzert Camp is 30km from the Luxembourg border and was first set up in 1938 to house workers, and was then used as a police detention camp. In July 1940 it was then placed under the Inspector of Concentration Camps and used to house political prisoners from France, The Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. So in the space of 2 years it was 3 different types of camps
I am sure that it was a concentration camp as I have a letter that he wrote later on in his life where he states th
Your Grandfather's escape from a concentration camp in 1940,would have been a detention centre and many were set up by the Vichy government....some were for detaining Jews in the unoccupied zone as the Vichy government became collaborative with the new European order.There was only one concentration camp in France and that was at Natzweiler in northern Alsace which opened in April 1941. Was he living in the Occupation Zone,ie the German zone which was military administered from Brussels or was he living in the unoccupied zone?,ie Vichy France which was administered from Vichy.If this can be attained then it may be able to establish where he may have been detained.The Germans soon streamlined their deportment policy to Germany from Northern France.Rail transports ran from Drancy, a detention centre for Jews and other rail centres for the "enemies of the Third Reich". Vichy detention centres were harsh run but were largely left to the direction of Vichy with Vichy most collaborative with their liaison with the likes of the SS agencies.There was a notorious detention centre at Gur in the Ger in which detainees such as Jews suffered badly.Others were used to detain Allied escapees from the BEF and RAF personnel who had been shotdown over France and travelled south into the unoccupied zone.Successful escapes from these detention centres usually made for Spain aided by patriotic French.
Hucks, thanks for your reply. I can confirm that it was a concentration camp as I have a later he wrote later on in life stating that he was in concentration camp but he does not mention which one. I have asked my aunt and mother if they know the answer but they don't. All I know is that he was in one for a few month and then managed to escape. I don't even know where the camp was situated.
I would think he was actually in a French Internment/Detention camp rather than a German Concentration Camp. If you Google 'Puy De Dome Detention Camps' there are little snippets.
Oldleg, Looking at the case further.Are you aware of the alleged offense your Grandfather was accused of as it has some bearing on which internment camp he was held at?.His internment camp might also be determined by his location.Do you have the date of his escape and what was his location when he was involved in the resitance St Germain Lembron was situated in the Unoccupied Zone,ie,Vichy France and your Grandfather would have been held in one of the camps in the Unoccupied Zone.I must have passed the place a number of times on the A75 motorway. Here is some background to the camps which were aligned chiefly to the internment of Jews. WW2 - The Second World War: The Principal French Internment camps of WW2 Vichy France, aligned to the new order also set up internment camps voluntarily in the Occupied Zone for Jews very early following the armistice and without doubt laid the foundation for the deportment of Jews from France to the extermination camps from Drancy which continued up to the eve of the liberation of Paris. I have a further list of camps from a publication on Vichy which tends to overlap the above but is further informative as it categorises the camps allocated separately to Communists,Gypsies and Jews. A check on those who escaped from the internment camp at St Hippolyte du Fort and went through the safe house of Dr Rodocanachi in Marseille does not include your Grandfather.Many Allied escapees passed through this camp and safe house in the days of Vichy rule.
Oldleg, Your grandfather may have called it a concentration camp, but that does not mean that it was what is called a Concentration Camp. In all likelihood it was but a standard prisoner of war camp. Source: http://lesamitiesdelaresistance.fr/lien24/p96-105-bande_dessinee.pdf I'm translating the first paragraph for the benefit of the very few us who do not master Molière's tongue : ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jacques DUMAS (Marijac) (cf below) is taken prisoner on 15 June 1940, escapes and is demobilised in the non-occupied zone on 25 July 1940. He joins his wife Marie and his daughter who had taken refuge in the Puy de Dôme, at Saint Germain Lembron where his wife is from. Drawing comics since 1930, after his demoblisation Marijac easily finds a job working for the "Coeurs Vaillants" paper which had moved to Clermont Ferrand. He thus lives quietly until 1943 when the mandatory work service, the "STO", gave him the choice between going to work in Germany or to join the maquis of the Armée Secrète in the Puy de Dôme. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michel
Excellent new revelation. So Jacques was captured during the battle of France,exactly one week before the armistice was signed.....demobbed and made his way to the village where his family had sought refuge in.It looks as Jacques was not interned in a Vichy internment camp but as a POW, released for demob as agreed under the terms of the Armistice. However,quite a number of French POWs ended up being taken to Germany....POW release was offered by the Germans on the basis of one POW released for three skilled workers to go and work in Germany...the agreement entitled La Releve, failed due to lack of sufficient volunteers to work in Germany.What followed to satisfy German demands was the STO initiative by Vichy,in reality, a policy of forced labour in Germany. The STO mandatory commitment to Germany by Vichy became the best recruiting sergeant for the maquis. Those French subject to STO vanished into the night to join the Maquis and other organised resistance units. The principal Resistance leader in the Auvergne was Emile Coulaudron ( Colonel Gaspard) who as FFI leader in June 1944 conducted the drive and engagement against the Germans on Mont Mouchet in the Margeride. He featured in the 1969 documenary The Sorrow and the Pity and when interviewed was a taxi driver in Clermont Ferrand....the Battle of Mont Mouchet was not entirely a success over the Germans, the FFI dispersed with the Germans taking their usual excesses against villages. The National Resistance Memorial is situated on Mont Mouchet...a very interesting site to visit in an area which does not have seem to have changed much since 1944. I wonder if Jacques Dumas fought at Mont Mouchet?
What the article says is that Jacques escaped, not that he was released. It does not say whether he was still in France or already transferred to Germany. However, the fact that Jacques used the term "concentration camp" might mean that he was in one of the temporary regroupment camps in France where the multitudes of POWs were sorted out before being sent to Stalags or Oflags in Germany. I don't think that any (bar seriously wounded soldiers) was released from POW camps so that he could be demobbeb by Vichy. Rather, those not taken prisoners or who escaped and could make their way to the non-occupied zone were (for the most part) demobbed by Vichy. The article does not mention anything of the sort. Jacques was asked to write an illustrated paper for the Maquis to boost its morale, and he did so with his usual talent and humour. Michel
Oldleg, Apparently the term camp de concentration was indeed routinely used in 1940 by the French to designate a Frontstalag: "Nous voyageons en wagons à bestiaux, gardés par des allemands, pendant deux nuits et un jour, le deuxième jour, nous débarquons à Compiègne, où après une traversée de la ville, nous entrons dans un camp de concentration, le Frontstalag 122." Source: 43 - Un réfractaire au STO (search for "concentration") Frontstalag is short for Frontstammlager, which literally means Forward Ordinary Camp, i.e. Forward POW Camp for Other Ranks. Although the term camp de concentration appears to have been used at the time to designate Frontstalag, I think we should not use it anymore because of the probable resulting confusion with the much more sinister Concentration Camps (Konzentrationslager) intended for incarceration of political opponents or annihilation of targeted groups. However, your grandfather may have escaped from a Dulag (Durchgangslager or Transit Camp) even before he was transferred to a Frontstalag... If your granddad escaped from a Frontstalag, you can probably narrow down your search to a few Frontstammlager nearest the place where he was captured on 15 June 1940, probably during the fighting around MARCHAINVILLE. See: 11ème Dragons Portés 1940 The German lists of prisoners in the various Frontstammlager in France are kept in microfilm form at the BAVCC in Caen. See here: http://www.archivesnationales.culture.gouv.fr/chan/chan/series/pdf/619MI.pdf However, because he escaped he may not be listed there (he is not listed in the French official list at the BnF here: Liste officielle des prisonniers de guerre français). A better source would probably be the "Fichier Eckert" at the Service Historique de la Défense as indicated here: Le Guichet du Savoir - Consulter le sujet - frontstalag Michel
After the Armistice,French soldiers went through the Vichy government demobilising procedure as agreed by the Armistice terms on being released from German captivity. During the chaos on the collapse of France,(as experienced by the Allies on the German collapse in early 1945,handling of POWs became a considerable task),POWs were kept,abeit in the short term in temporary cages and from here, Oldleg's Grandfather well have escaped from one of these cages set up in the area with the categories as you state. Marchainville and the adjacent, La Lande sur Eure,(I am assuming this since there are at least four other La Lande in the Orne Department) is quite a long distance from the Puy de Dome.It must have been an ordeal and taken some time for Oldleg's Grandfather to arrive at St Germain Lembron if he escaped from captivity from the Orne Department. As regards the background to Jacques Dumas wartime activities,one would expect a French forum to be more informative on the topic and the input is welcomed. Incidentally,I never said or claimed that Jacques Dumas fought at Mont Mouchet.....I posed the question and you then expanded his journalistic role in the Maquis/ Armee Secrete which was not related before. Overall I can imagine that Jacques Dumas could have recorded an interesting account of his involvement in clandestine activities against the German occupiers.He survived,many didn't.
Harry, I never said (nor thought) that you said or claimed that he fought at Mont Mouchet. I was just trying to answer, even partly so, your question, using what I could gather from the rest of the article in French, where his journalistic role is summarised. In short, he was asked by a friend of his, Captain Charles BOYER, who commanded a nearby maquis, to make a small periodical to boost his troops' morale. Its name was Le Corbeau Déchaîné (The Unchained Crow). After the Liberation, he started another periodical for the youth, Coq Hardi (Bold Rooster) published every ten days. Some examples of both can be found further down the article. Michel
Oldleg should now have a fine insight to his grandfather's experience in living in France throughout Vichy rule,German occupation and have the direction for additional research Underground journalism,printing,distribution of journals and newspapers always ran the risk of detection and betrayal.....essential publications for anti German morale and more so when the Germans and Vichyites, until the German setbacks in Russia and North Africa in late 1942,could only envisage a German victory. I can imagine Jacques could have revealed through his own eyes the account of the liberation, the settling of accounts and the resistants de la derniere heure.
Found it! "envoyé au front en Belgique, puis sur la Loire, se retrouve dans un camp de prisonniers à Surgères, près de Saintes. Il parviendra à jouer les filles de l’air quelques semaines plus tard." which roughly translates as: "sent to the front in Belgium, then on the Loire, he finds himself in a prisoners camp in Surgères, near Saintes. He is able to escape a few weeks later." Source: Coq hardi : vie et mort d’un journal (première partie) | BDZoom.com Another webpage describes the camp in Surgères as one of the detention camps purpose built by the Germans in the vicinity of a city. On that same page, it is said that another camp in the same region (in Saint Martin de Ré) was called "camp de concentration" by the local people, thus confirming once again that this term of "concentration camp" was used by the French people for all kinds of camps, not necessarily of the actual KZ type. Source: Les lieux de détention en Charente maritime - afmd Michel
Guys I sorry that I have been so quiet. Things in my household have been hectic the last month or so. This is amazing to see all this information flooding out now. There are leads that I can now follow to confirm where he may have been. I have tried to ask my mother and aunt (his two daughters) and they don't know much about what he did concerning that period of his life as my mother was born at the begining of the war and my aunt a few years later and they never showed any interest when he spoke of his war time experiences. I owe you guys a couple of pints!!!!
Can anyone recommend any French forums? Although born in London I now live in France and have no idea of any good forums. Cheers, Olek.
