Here's my take on how Germany could have won

Discussion in 'The Third Reich' started by Patrick66, May 30, 2021.

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  1. Patrick66

    Patrick66 Member

    I've been listening to the book:
    Ivan's War: The Red Army at War 1939-45


    I've long been a skeptic of the theory that Germany could have "won". But I now believe differently.

    As you know, the Soviets were dreadfully unprepared for war. Millions of Soviets surrendered to the Germans in 1941. Had the Germans had a different strategy, they could have persuaded those millions of Soviets, along with all of Ukraine, the residents of the Baltic States, the Fins, and more to join them to fight Stalin.

    Initially, Soviet troops were eager to surrender rather than face certain death fighting the Germans. According to the book, as the war went on, Soviet soldiers learned of the horrific atrocities that the German SS was committing. As well, they learned of the horrific fate of their comrades in German captivity. Soldiers went from being willing to surrender to fighting until death.

    There are three things Hitler would have needed to avoid. One, he would have needed to be content in owning all of Poland and abandoning his plan of "Lebensraum" in Ukraine and the Baltic states as well as Russia. Two, Hitler would have needed to abandon the "Final Solution". Hitler could have deported all of the Jews to France, etc., but putting them into death camps could have definitely been a deal killer. Three, no declaration of war on the U.S. Obviously, I'm taking liberties but whenever discussing alternate history. one is going to take such liberties.

    It's probably LIKELY that many Soviet officers, still reeling from the executions of their former comrades (Stalin's purges), would have gladly joined the efforts to remove Stalin. Hell, someone close to Stalin may have simply shot him and that would have been the end of the war and the end of the Soviet Union.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Lindele

    Lindele formerly HA96


    Too much theory and I am not convinced the winning would have been good for my family.
    next theory what if Germany would have stayed in South-East Africa?
    Stefan.
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Stefan.
    Had to edit your reply yet again.
    You keep replying inside the quoted post.
    You are meant to reply outside of the quote marks.
     
  4. Patrick66

    Patrick66 Member

    Not the point nor the topic of the thread.
     
  5. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Indeed:
    A) to leave Austria
    B) to stop painting postcards
    C) to become a politician

    Then everything would certainly have turned out very differently...
     
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  6. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    We are not very good at doing 'what if' threads/scenarios on here, we tend to deal more with reality

    What if Stalin had never been born?


    TD
     
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  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Welcome Patrick

    Sorry we dont do what ifs on the forum

    Load of nonsense speculating “what ifs”


    It does not work on this forum and causes poor debates if members get involved

    Allied powers defeated the Axis powers all sorted
     
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  8. Patrick66

    Patrick66 Member

    I reported my post and asked management to remove this thread. I won't bore you further with such conjecture. Take care.
     
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  9. Blutto

    Blutto Plane Mad

    Good call.
     
    CL1 likes this.
  10. MarkN

    MarkN Well-Known Member

    Why are so many obsessed with trying to find ways to discuss the nazis winning the war?

    It's not history. It's a fantasy fiction than mankind did well to avoid.
     
    CL1 and Chris C like this.
  11. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    Interestingly the path that Germany took to war might have been completely different had the regime taken the advice of the man who held the position to be involved in important military decisions.

    That man was General Ludwig Beck's and his opposition in 1938 to Hitler's "imperialist" plans when as Chief of the Heer General Staff he declared and protested on 30 May 1938 that the army was not ready to conquer Czechoslovakia. Furthermore, he stated that the army was unprepared for a general war and the the principle of modern war should be limited and controlled through the discharge of moral principles.

    Too late to save Germany from what would amount to eventual total war, the Wehrmacht had pledged loyalty to Hitler in 1938, rather than Germany, he failed to receive support from other Chiefs of Staff in organising opposition to Hitler's plans. On 18 August 1938,he resigned on principle that the direction that Hitler was taking Germany was totally wrong.

    His final role was as the platform for German resistance against Hitler and was considered as the leader of the conspirators against Hitler., a role that would end by taking his own life after the failure of the July 1944 plot.
     
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  12. jonheyworth

    jonheyworth Senior Member

    I agree with the often pointless speculation but , I will add something

    attacking Russia was not as dopey as everyone makes out . After all the Germans did defeat Russia in effect in WW1 .
    Totally defeating Russia in WW2 was however a different ballgame

    even if Germany had defeated Russian, there was no way they would ever have defeated the UK and the empire .

    ergo no matter what , Germany could not have WON WW2 . They could have achieved a far more favourable outcome , but a victory . Never
     
    chipm likes this.
  13. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place.... Patron

    On this forum we are a boring bunch. We are the internet equivalent of the ante-room at the RA Mess Larkhill. Old duffers in leather armchairs trying to remember each others name. "Do you remember that fellah Bolton? CRA of some division or other with M10s wasn't it? "

    We save our speculation for the winners at Sandown...

    However, over on the Axis History forum there are lots of people willing to take your what ifs. Some of its members would not be out of place in The Producers or are the sorts of chaps who keep panther tanks in their basements. What if - Axis History Forum
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  14. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Not invaded Russia?!

    Developed the atom bomb first and used it?!

    Taken WWII’s conclusion to a penalty shoot out?!
     
  15. smdarby

    smdarby Patron Patron

    Oh my! Just for curiosity I had a quick look at the Axis History Forum and saw a thread entitled "Recommended reading on alternative history" started by a poster named Panzer Leader. I don't think I'll be going back.

    Fair play to Patrick66 for graciously accepting the WW2Talk rules. Hopefully he'll stick with us.
     
    JDKR likes this.
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    and so the cycle cycles

    What would've happened if France chose to invade Germany during the September campaign of 1939? - Quora.

    TD

    If Britain and France had undertaken a major offensive against Germany in September, 1939, how would it have turned out?
    What would've happened if France invaded Germany when it militarized Rhineland?
    Why didn't France and UK invade Germany September 3rd 1939?
    Alternate History: In World War II, what would happened if Nazi Germany failed to invade France in 1940?
    Why was the Saar Offensive (France’s invasion into Germany in 1939) so ineffective?
    Would France win in a war against Germany today if they were invaded again?

    :sleepy::sleepy::sleepy::sleepy::sleepy::sleepy::sleepy::sleepy:
     
  17. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Muahahaha - are you serious!?
    No thanks - in this country we have no more need for wars, sacrifices, renunciations and indelible shame any more!

    Old German saying: One time is no time, two times is once too much
     
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  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    No I'm not serious - just trying to show that there is little to be gained from following 'what if's'

    TD
     
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  19. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    Phew....and I was already thinking: What if he's serious? :lol::lol:
     
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  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Just open the link and see the 'Related Questions' on the right hand side

    What they are related to I have absolutely no idea

    TD
     
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