High School massacre and increased War time gun crime?

Sheldrake · Feb 20, 2018

Harry Ree said: ↑

[QUOTE="Sheldrake, post:

There could have been more. Leonard Cheshire VC the idiosyncratic commander of 617 Squadron became convinced in May 1944 that the Germans would launch a commando raid on their airfield and has small arms issued to his air crew. Nor just revolvers, but sten guns. The result was drunken airmen taking pot shots at people returning from the pub. Lots of field craft learned stalking the mess to get back to their room.

Does this submission have a valid source.

RAF Airfield defence was provided by the RAF Regiment after it was formed, plus airfield AA units as appropriate.

In May 1944,No 617 Squadron was based at Woodhall Spa.The domestic site was at Thorpe across the road from the airfield.However the Officers Mess was 3 miles away across the other side of Woodhall at the Petwood Hotel. Therefore two locations would have to be covered and I would think that the decision to issue weapons such as stens would have been recorded in the Woodhall station and No 617 Squadron ORBs.

Further any incidents such as personal weapons being used without authority would have been covered by disciplinary action and would have been recorded officially.I would have thought that such an incident would have been reported in the local press.

Later in the war some RAF B.C squadron aircrew did elect to carry small arms on raids but as i see it was the exception rather than the rule.

Postwar squadron ground crew had their own rifle secured in a locked room in the vicinity of the billet
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My source?

A presentation in the Bar of the Petwood Hotel on the final stand of an RAF Staff Ride Facilitators Course. The subject was compare and contrast leadership styles of Guy Gibson and Leonard Cheshire. It was run by Force Development from Cranwell. Seb Lloyd was there so it must be true!

Sheldrake · Feb 20, 2018

TTH said: ↑

Many of them were called up, presumably those who weren't actually in the can. In the course of the research for my book I found many references to criminals in the ranks of the 50th and 9th Australian divisions, including some with serious records. There's a sentimental "dirty dozen" myth that tough street guys are naturally good fighters and can make good soldiers. This is largely nonsense. These characters were the bane of their units and never did a lick of work or fighting if they could help it. In his book on British military psychiatry Ahrenfeldt comments that the army had a lot of trouble disciplining the young Borstal-type delinquents swept into the conscription net later in the war. They were occasionally able to make something of the younger ones, but the old lags and real villains were absolutely incorrigible.
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Agreed. Criminals were quick to desert. The last prisoners in the HM Tower were the Kray Twins called up under National Service and deserting.

alieneyes · Feb 20, 2018

canuck said: ↑

Lorne Barlett was a WW2 sniper with The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry.

"We were out on this mission this one day, Ken and I, and we noticed a couple of these soldiers running ahead of us in open ground and I said to Ken, we’ll get this fellow here. So the Germans come around behind a tree and I got my sights and I got him, dead, dead shot. So the other one got the hell out of there in a hurry so Ken and I moved over to see about this German, see if he was dead or alive or whatnot. He was dead alright but he’d dropped his German Schmeisser machine gun, which is a very fast firing machine gun, handgun, and I said to Ken, you know, I think we’ll take this home, back to the company headquarters and see what to do with it.
So I took it back and talked to the company sergeant major and I said, I’d like to send this back to my dad because you could just mail it in three parts almost. So he helped me dismantle it and put it in a box and mail it back to Canada. My dad got it just two days before Christmas, that complete Schmeisser machine gun. My son’s still got it."
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I'm reminded of a story I was told many years ago.

Canada was part of the ICC and ICCS in the 60s and 70s and as such Canadian military personnel were sent to Vietnam.
It got to the point that so many AK47s and SKS rifles, as well as a few Chicom hand grenades, were sent home that the Department of External Affairs in Ottawa, which handled mail service for personnel, had to have an RCMP officer stationed in the mail room.
Don't know about the grenades but the rifles are now part of the War Museum's collection. I took a tour through their storage facilities in the 80s and, you name the Warsaw Pact country and there was an AK from there in the collection.

redtop · Feb 21, 2018

Well thank you all for your answers,when I asked the question I was thinking of official weapons kept at home not having given a thought to the illegal/trophy weapons ,

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High School massacre and increased War time gun crime?

Sheldrake All over the place....

Sheldrake All over the place....

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High School massacre and increased War time gun crime?

Sheldrake All over the place....

Sheldrake All over the place....

alieneyes Senior Member

redtop Well-Known Member

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