Hiroshima 1945 - The British Atomic Attack

Discussion in 'War Against Japan' started by davidbfpo, Sep 23, 2020.

  1. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

    Wonderful photo of a B-32 here with the bomb bay doors open showing the problems that would have to be overcome to make it compatible with the A-bombs.

    The B-32 Dominator: The Heavy Bomber in Service for Less Than a Year

    Note the solid keel running the length of the centreline of the bomb bay, just like that other Consolidated product the B-24, and the bulkhead dividing fore and aft compartments.
     
  2. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Thanks to Itdan in Post 12 I have just spent two hours reading his cited link: The Lancaster as a potential nuclear bomber in 1945 This is a website I have never visited. The thread is a mix of speculation, arguments over technical matters (range, weight, fuel and more), general arguments and a plethora of web links. So many different angles preclude a summary.

    Easy issues first. An update on in-flight refuelling from the RAF Historical Society Journal 2009, with an article 'Tiger Force and Flight Refuelling', pg. 69 onwards: https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/docume...AS_Air_Land_Co-op_in_Op_TELIC_Tiger_Force.pdf

    There are several references (including above) that the USAAF were keen to have RAF bombers available - for invading Japan - as Tallboy bombs would be useful to reduce underground defences expected to be encountered.

    Airfield security was an issue, hence reluctance to deploy bombers with atom bombs to Okinawa; at one stage even Saipan and Tinian islands were raided. See: Japanese air attacks on the Mariana Islands - Wikipedia Intriguing passage on airborne commando raids,

    In July 2020 this UK-based magazine had an article on the theme (behind a pay wall though): VICTORY 75: MISSION IMPROBABLE

    For a summary of the arguments on ww2aircraft.net I quote a 21/7/2020 post:
    When Mark Felton's Youtube film appeared it was dismissed; with my added emphasis:
     
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  3. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    The US confused the arrangement on Tinian for British observers to witness the dropping of the Hiroshima atomic bomb.This resulted in excluding the British Government appointed observers,Group Captain Lenard Cheshire VC ,Bomber Command and Dr William Penny,the atomic scientist whose mathematical calculations aided the production of the weapon, from witnessing the dropping of the first atomic bomb.This was despite the British Government having made arrangements with their US counterparts and instructing the observers to travel to Tinian. The decision was made locally by LeMay who it is alleged to have being following the orders from Washington,presumably from Groves,the Manhattan project leader. LeMay would not budge and declared that the British would receive official reports after the dropping of the bomb.Cheshire was understandingly angry and determined to settle the issue.

    Cheshire and Penny refused to accept LeMay's decision and contacted the British Joint Mission in Washington to notify them of their position.Cheshire remarked to LeMay "if I am not going on it,why have I been sent here".Later they were allowed to be present on the briefing.Their witnessing of a drop of an atomic bomb would have to wait until the Nagasaki bomb was dropped.

    As Guy Gibson's "hands on" involvement in Operation Chastise,so Tibbets assessed his requirements for success.He flew to Iwo Jima to assess it as a selection for an emergency diversion airfield and chose it as such.Thinking about what could happen if there was an incident on take off carrying the weapon from one of Tinian's four parallel 8500 foot runways he opted to use the B 32s design reversible pitch propellers for the Enola Gay.Wishing to gain increased altitude and air speed, he reduced the weight of the loaded aircraft by 7700 lbs, having the heavy turrets and central fire control system stripped out, increasing the max altitude by 4000 feet and an increase in air speed.The round trip from Tinian to the Japanese mainland was in the order of 3400 miles.

    Tibbits justification in initiating the prop mod was declared as "We couldn't afford to pile up at the end of the runway with that load.These propellers gave us a chance to backwater if anything went wrong after rolling"

    Thus a dimension of Consolidated's prop design for the B 32 was incorporated for the Enola Gay aircraft.

    Tiger Force was formed in February 1945 and went through many changes to its strength until it was settled in June 1945. The ground element had already left for the Pacific but were diverted to Indian bases after the two atomic bombs were dropped.The Lancasters and Lincolns never left home shores,Tiger Force flying training ceased immediately and the Force was officially disbanded on 31 October 1945.
     
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  4. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    As an aside,one of the LB -30 transport Liberators differed from the standard version with the introduction of the large single fin tailplane as the third prototype B 32 and production model.

    Its fuselage was longer than the standard Liberator and was an ad hoc version with a white finish. Liberator, Serial No AL 504 became the personal aircraft of WSC and was christened "Commando".

    Apparently the aircraft was lost during a flight in the South Atlantic in May 1945.
     
  5. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

    A single tall tail was also used on an XB-24K prototype and 739 PB4Y-2 Privateer versions produced 1944/45 and 34 of its related RY-3 transport version. 26 of the latter were scheduled for the RAF in 1945 as the Liberator C.IX, but not all were delivered due to the end of the war.

    A single tail was also planned for the B-24N. 8 prototypes produced by Ford flew in 1944/45, but production of another 5,000+ was cancelled in May 1945, with the end of the war in sight and production by then of the B-24M exceeding losses.
     
  6. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    An amateur RAF historian has offered this, with my emphasis:
     
  7. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    A undated airfield historian's paper (pg. 20) refers to RAF Enstone and Felton's story, with my emphasis:
    See : https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...7431478/Military+airfields+in+Oxfordshire.pdf

    This story has been around since at least 2005, without any real gains: RAFCommands Archive :: RAF Enstone, Oxon & Lancasters
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
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  8. Harry Ree

    Harry Ree Very Senior Member

    I would have thought that the mystery could have been solved by reference to the Enstone Station ORB which would have recorded the presence and departure of any unit based at RAF Enstone. Similarly that of Moreton in the Marsh might reveal something as RAF Enstone was a satellite of Moreton in the Marsh within No 91 Bomber (OTU) Group ,Abingdon, Oxfordshire.

    No 21 OTU ORB could also be checked for any information relating to secret lodgers at Enstone. I have checked the history of RAF Enstone and the largest aircraft based there as expected was the Wellington of various Marks used for OTU training. One activity noted of No 21 OTU is that it was involved in leaflet dropping which seems strange to add that as these operations mounted by OTUs was usually a feature of course training before a course passed out....(earlier in the war any shortfall on a maximum effort op such as the 1942 raid on Cologne was made up with OTU courses headed by their instructors)

    For comparison,the arrival of a specialised secret squadron at RAF Scampton in March 1943 was recorded in the Station ORB so it seems strange that a unit which was said to be based at RAF Enstone has not received a record of being there.There is Serial Number data on the whole production of the Lancaster relating to their deployment and fate....a task for another day.

    Further I have checked on the information I have on all Lancaster units and this includes the postwar period until the Lancaster was declared obsolete for Bomber Command...nothing relating to RAF Enstone's secret lodger found.
     
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