History rewritten ?

Discussion in 'Durham Light Infantry' started by Mr Jinks, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I saw this ;-

    Why we should never forget horrors seen by DLI | The Northern Echo

    written yesterday .
    The story of the DLI at the liberation of Belsen? Except this wasnt the DLI really ,they were prior to WW2 but had by the time of Belsen been Royal Artillery for a number of years. Are we rewriting history ? For the average member of the public with no real knowledge of WW2 will this be taken as the truth or will it prompt someone to delve deeper? I know there`s a book out there too on a similar subject but they were not DLI (even if they wanted to retain an affiliation ) I have asked a few people if the DLI were at Belsen and in the true sense a few clerks from 9th DLI who volunteered to serve `after` the liberation.
    Prior to joining here if I had read that story then I would have believed `If its in print it must be true` Thankfully the good people on here have taught me to dig a little deeper ? I do not advocate the theory that `anything` which keeps WW2 in the public eye is a good thing I think history is being rewritten. Chinese wisper`s on a grand scale ,folklore and legend taken as fact..by the author at least who obviously believes it!

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  2. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....

    This refers to 113 Light AA Regiment.I took a family there whose father had been a troop commander.His notebook was the hand over notes of Bergen Hohne Camp and their memorabilia included SS runes probably taken from the collars of the SS Guards.Here is the article I wrote http://www.theobservationpost.com/blog/?p=1508
  3. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran


    With all due respect,the horrors of Belsen are too deeply entrenched in the annals of WW2 history for it to matter a damn if among the British troops present after it's liberation were clerks of the 113th LAA who's regiment had formerly been known as the DLI.

    By all means, question what you read, but I pray that you do not fall into the trap of disseminating the greater truth

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  4. Historic Steve

    Historic Steve Researching 21 Army Group/BAOR post VE day

    The full title is 113th (2nd/5th Durham Light Infantry) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA
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  5. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Sorry Ron, but you too have this wrong,its not about Belsen, thats not up for discussion. Its about rewriting ` History` The DLI in its true form were not there. An affiliated regiment was there. Its only about getting facts right. Belsen or any other emotive subject usually takes over peoples reason . Okay if you don`t give a damn I do its not about the falling into any `trap`.
    I am no Holocaust denier but if we do not start and put the `facts` right are some future generation going to examine the facts and disect the story through non truths ? You only have to sow the seed. I think in this one Ron you have misunderstood . Sorry it wasnt my intention of upsetting anyone but its you who have sadly misunderstood the Question.

  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery


    As ever the passing reader with no interest in WW2 will read it and move on.
    The reader who has an interest in WW2 would possibly dig deeper as suggested and add corrections as required

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  7. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran


    In my younger days we had a proverb that went "if the cap fits, wear it !"
    (Reversely, if it doesn't fit, don't wear it.)

    You unequivocally state that you are "no Holocaust denier" and therefore, in my book, you really do not need to defend yourself from any derogatory assertion that you mistakenly imply that I may have made.

    To digress, I am further reminded about my own service with the 4th QOH.

    When I first joined them I was promptly reminded by the SSM of their illustrious past which included their role in the Charge of the Light Brigade: The 4th Hussars – The Queen's Royal Hussars Regimental Association

    The Regimental Title has changed a lot since those days but I think that it would have take a braver man than you or I to have told by my tank commander that by virtue of their many regimental name changes they had lost the right to their claim to fame.

  8. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    The title of the unit was as `Historic Steve ` and `Sheldrake` rightly state ;-
    113th (2nd/5th Durham Light Infantry) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA
    No problem there but then we do not find a mention of 113th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA except in passing refrences with the emphasis on DLI. I understand what Clive says;-
    but the reader who has an interest and wishes to dig deeper will find these numerous accounts together with a well known reference book plus the story of 113th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA is on the Durham Records site. So the `digging further` is simply reinforcing the `diggers` original find as true facts?
    Ron ""if the cap fits, wear it !" yes I`ve heard this before and its official meaning ;-
    You took my original post out of context it wasnt a trivialisation of the liberation it was simply an argument to have the correct title of the unit involved stated not a generalisation ,simple as that. It wasnt my intention to make light or for others to make light of what was found there. It was for historical purposes an argument for `accuracy` nothing more.
    My denial came with your last sentence of your original post;-
    Why would I ? My question was for historical accuracy nothing more as I said above not to trivialise any event. I also admit that I was quite taken aback by the wording ;-
    "for it to matter a damn" again it was if I was belittling the actual event? (I also didnt mention `clerks of 113th LAA) No I asked a question in relation to accuracy .Sorry I`m pointing this out at every opportunity but I obviously didnt make it clear in my original post.
    I asked the question,I received feedback ,job done I suppose ? I read a great line on a post on this very forum once which I have been dying to use myself and now I can " I`ll retire to the pavilion on this one".

  9. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    I understood your drift Kyle, you'd be the last person on here to take anything away from DLI.

    That kind of accuracy has proven important time and again on this forum - e.g. when people join up and repeat an innocent enough understanding that their relative 'was present when Belsen was liberated'. Only to find out that it's likely they weren't, they were probably there later. The truth doesn't take anything away from the role they did play in bearing witness, but to leave such claims unquestioned would take away something from those who were there first, dealing with the full impact.

    And let's face it deniers would be only too happy to avail themselves of any inconsistency.
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  10. PaulE

    PaulE Senior Member

    I have all the histories of the 112 LAA Regt RA ( formerly 7 DLI ) and the 113 LAA Regt RA ( formerly 5 DLI ) including extensive accounts of 113 Regts time at Belsen , the Northern Echo has reported the facts incorrectly in their article but it appears to be based on the work of 19 years old Flaminia Luck from the Holocaust Educational Trust and Kings College , London / Durham High School , i'm not sure where she got her infomation from but she needs to revise her work.
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  11. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA

    I notice that the Northern Echo web article has a comments section. It might be helpful to their readers if some of our members who are knowledgeable on the subject update the article.
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  12. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Is 'Flaminia Luck' someone's real name ? Poor Child !
  13. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  14. PaulE

    PaulE Senior Member

    I've added a comment on the NE website , not that anyone will take any notice of it ! Hopefully Flaminia will improve her research skills in the future
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  15. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake All over the place....


    I am not quite sure exactly what point you are trying to make I have to disagree with first sentence.

    It matters to the families of the men who served in 113rd (2/5th DLI) Light AA. The solders of this unit carried out important humanitarian work following the liberation of the camp. The people I took had no idea of the role their father or grandfather played, or the pressures he faced.

    Understanding the detail of what happened raises points of wider current day interest. e.g.

    #1 It isn't widely known that the liberating troops kept Belsen camp under guard to contain the Typhus epidemic rampant in the camp and killing 500 people a day. The prisoners were still locked up and guarded by Hungarian troops.

    #2 Clashed between what were described as Jewish and Christian Poles among former inmates living in Bergan Hohne barracks resulted in the removal of Christians to Fallingbostal. After this Bergan Hohne became a centre for organising the emigration of European Jews to Palestine, against the policy of the British Mandate.
  16. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran


    It appears that I am doomed forever to be misunderstood :)

    In no sense was I seeking to deny the existence at the camp of the men of the 112th, I was objecting, I suppose, to the discussion about their change of Regiment.

    I too am now going to "Retire to the pavilion" !


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