HQ 4th Brit Div, DLI & ITD

Discussion in 'Service Records' started by neil.j.merryweather, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. neil.j.merryweather

    neil.j.merryweather New Member

    Hi,

    Please be gentle with me as this my first post!

    I am trying to research for a friend what her father did during the 2nd World War. I have obtained the Service Record and now wish to consult the war diaries to flesh this out even more.

    Now I have come up with a few issues.

    I have found the War diary reference for the first couple of years (he was in Iceland) but he then went to Egypt and according to Service and Casulty Form (B103) he joined a unit called ITD. I've no idea what this refers to.

    He then joined the 18 DLI. But I can't find any reference to the 18th DLI?

    He then went onto join the 54 DLI. Again I can't find that either.

    He was then posted to the HQ 4 British Division. How do I find their War diary?

    According to one of his records he was in Africa then Sicily then Italy and then Greece.

    Any help would be great fully received.
     
  2. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    I think there are a number of threads elsewhere about the British 4th Infantry Division - and there is a published divisional history..

    The below is a cut and paste summary job to kick you off - you may already know all this. the dates within the service records will be key, of course:

    "The division was a pre war Regular Army formation, which had served in France and Belgium as part of II Corps in 1939 and 1940. It reorganised on a mixed division establishment in June 1942, when the 21st Tank Brigade replaced the 11th Infantry Brigade. It landed in North Africa on 23rd March 1943, coming under command of 1st Army. It transferred to V Corps on the 2nd April, fighting in the battles for Oued Zarga between the 7th and 14th April 1943, and the Medjez Plain between the 23rd and 30th April 1943. On the 3rd May, it transferred to IX Corps for the final offensive, taking part in the battle for Tunis between the 5th and 12th May 1943. The division returned to V Corps command on the 22nd May 1943. It then moved to Tunisia District on the 12th June 1943. The division left North Africa for Egypt on the 16th December 1943. At this time, the division reverted to a standard infantry division establishment.


    The division was deployed from Egypt, and arrived in Italy on 21st February 1944. It took part in the "second battle" for Cassino between the 11th and 18th May 1944, under the command of XIII Corps. It participated in the battle for the Trasimere Line between the 20th and 30th June 1944, the advance to Arezzo between the 4th and 17th July 1944 and the advance to Florence between the 17th July and 10th August. On the 11th August 1944, the division transferred to V Corps and then to I Canadian Corps on the 7th September 1944 for the battle of the Rimini Line which commenced on the 14th September. The battle concluded on the 21st September and the division returned to V Corps on the 1st October 1944. The division left for Greece on 12th, arriving a day later. It remained in Greece until the end of the war, and was disbanded there in March 1947."
     
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  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Richard
    Just two small corrections - the 4th Inf. Div took part in the FOURTH battle ( Operation Diadem)of Cassino 11th- 18th May etc

    main reason that 21st Tank bde was made independent was the Div was neither one thing nor the other as the Tank bde was an ASSAULT

    brigade - so the 4th reverted to a full Infantry division. They again joined us on the Coriano Ridge as of 7th September and were

    alongside at San Martino on the 17th under the first use of Monty's moonlight when I watched a battalion of Infantry being wiped out

    Cheers
     
  4. bexley84

    bexley84 Well-Known Member

    Tom,

    thanks - the nomenclature Cassino II (two) is remarkably (and rather perversely) how battle honours were conferred for that May period....I know, i know .. the quote I used. obviously followed that route of descriptive (hence my own added " ")...

    (edit update and edited above...) I've had a further look and it seems that in the 1950s, the committee whose job it was to define honours chose only to describe two battles - Cassino I (defined as being between January 20th and March 17th) and Cassino II (from 11th to 16th May)...pretty bizarre.. The official history seems to follow the logical four battle descriptive...

    I'd always been puzzled when walking through the Chelsea Hospital refectory that the battle honours had Cassino I and II up on the wall (see attachment)...

    best
     

    Attached Files:

  5. idler

    idler GeneralList

    18 DLI started as 2/13 DLI, the duplicate of 13 DLI, in late 1940. It ceased to be in Nov 1941 when it was absorbed back into 13 DLI which had, by then, been renumbered as 30 DLI! These Home Defence units were largely made up of older men, including many veterans of the Great War.

    As for 54 DLI, this may be 54 Searchlight Regiment, Royal Artillery. This was raised from 1/5 DLI just before the war and stayed in the UK until it went over to France in late 1944.

    If you can post dates or a scan of the records, we might be able to make more sense of it, as the Egypt posting looks out of sequence as you've written it.

    ITD is probably Infantry Training Depot, a likely destination for a draft posted overseas.
     
  6. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Idler

    I often shake my head also at some records - after we - 21st TB left 4th Div they were stationed at Bone and their main task

    was to supply reinforcements to the Sicily campaign this petered out and they were made up as a full Infantry Division - then - as

    we understood it - they went off to Egypt for some strange reason and finally turned up in Italy for Cassino Diadem Operation…

    Cheers

    ps - they were also involved in the cock up which caused the Salerno Mutiny - through NO fault of their own...
     
  7. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    There were two 18th DLI`s one was Home Defence the second was a beach landing unit they served at Salerno. There`s a thread on them somewhere just I cannot find it.

    Kyle
     
  8. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Richard.

    if I recall, the reason that Cassino I is recorded that way is that the first three battles were deemed to all but elements of the US Fifth Army's Op RAINCOAT - the plan to break the Gustav Line. When Eighth Army turned up to break the line in May 44, it switched to Op DIADEM.

    If this chap was in Iceland, he would have been with 49 Inf Div.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  9. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Good spot. The 'new' 18 DLI are mentioned here: 35 Beach Brick, but not in Rissik's The DLI at War!

    It also stitches some parts of the story together: our man goes to a depot in Egypt (Genefa?), is picked up by the new 18 DLI, then goes to Salerno. After that, he could have returned with 18 DLI to the UK for OVERLORD and been transferred to the UK-based 54 (DLI) SL Regt, but the weight of evidence is with him being left in the Med with 4 Div to go through Italy and on to Greece.
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    18 DLI war diary refs. Oddly it may have been used as a medical unit for a short period of time? I'm referring to the WO 177 file.

    WO 166/4232 INFANTRY: 18 Durham Light Infantry. 1940 Nov.- 1941 Aug.
    WO 169/10207 18 Durham Light Infantry 1943 Mar.- June
    WO 169/13691 35 Brick 18 Durham Light Infantry (DLI) 1943 July- Dec.
    WO 171/1294 18 Durham Light Infantry 1944 June- Dec.
    WO 171/5187 18 Durham Light Infantry 1945 Jan.- Sept.
    WO 177/1905 18 Durham Light Infantry (DLI) Medium Section 1943 Apr., May

    Drop me a PM if you'd like any copying.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    No 54 DLI listed that I could see at a quick glance but a complete set of 54 SL Regiment diaries

    WO 166/3072 ANTI-AIRCRAFT COMMAND: SEARCHLIGHT REGIMENTS: 54 Searchlight Regiment (SL). 1939 Aug.-1941 Dec.
    WO 166/7803 54 Regiment 1942 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 166/11512 54 Regiment 1943 Jan.-Dec.
    WO 166/14881 54 Regiment 1944 Jan.-Aug.
    WO 171/1206 54 Search Light (S/L) Regiment 1944 Sept.- Dec.
    WO 171/5091 54 Regiment 1945 Jan.- Dec.
    WO 171/9186 54 S. L. Regiment1946 Jan.- Mar.

    Cheers
     
  12. neil.j.merryweather

    neil.j.merryweather New Member

    Many thanks to all your responses that has been really helpful.

    It has certainly answerered the question on the 18th DLI but the 54 DLI still seems a bit of a mystery.
    Just to add some more detail....

    He left ITD for the 18 DLI on 31.03.43
    I have two seperate dates of when we was suposed to have transfered to the 54 DLI - 18.04.43 or 29.08.43
    In between those days there is a listing "Embarked for unknown destination with H Force" dated 30.06.43
    His next item of interest is something like " Posted to 4 from SR?? X(4) & SOS - Place of casulty changes to CMF and is dated 21.12.44
    He posted to HQ 4 British Division on 10.10.45

    On his medical report under countries he served in it redas thus " Iceland March 1940-June 1942, Africa June 1942-July1942, Sicily July 1942-Sep 1943 Italy Sep 1943 - Sep 1945 Greece Sep 1945 - to present day.

    Hope this helps narrow down the options of where he was and what the 54 DLi might have been?
     
  13. neil.j.merryweather

    neil.j.merryweather New Member

    Hi,

    I am trying find anything out about DLI 54 which appears on the Service Record of the person I am researching.

    It is not the 54th Searchlight as he was in Africa/Europe during the period.

    Below is a brief extract from the service record

    He left ITD for the 18 DLI on 31.03.43
    I have two seperate dates of when we was suposed to have transfered to the 54 DLI - 18.04.43 or 29.08.43
    In between those days there is a listing "Embarked for unknown destination with H Force" dated 30.06.43
    His next item of interest is something like " Posted to 4 from SR?? X(4) & SOS - Place of casulty changes to CMF and is dated 21.12.44
    He posted to HQ 4 British Division on 10.10.45

    On his medical report under countries he served in it redas thus " Iceland March 1940-June 1942, Africa June 1942-July1942, Sicily July 1942-Sep 1943 Italy Sep 1943 - Sep 1945 Greece Sep 1945 - to present day.

    I am trying to trace his whereabouts during the war and from there look at the war diary that will add a little more colour to his World War history.
     
  14. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    There`s an error there somewhere We never went to Sicily until 43 ? There must be another transfer or two there`s too many destinations and 18 DLI were in Normandy in 44 so it appears there should be another transfer around Aug-Sept 43 after 18th had been at Salerno anyhow? Whats his name and number and whats his unit prior to 18 DLI if hes been to Iceland and Africa prior to joining 18DLI I wonder how he ended up back at ITD?
    54DLI will possibly be a renumbered holding battalion just like 53DLI but the question you are asking with the details you currently share here only leads to more questions I`m afraid?


    Kyle
     
  15. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Post a copy of the page if you can - A picture paints a thousand words and all that :)
     
  16. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi

    The 16th DLI were in Greece from 3 Dec 44 along with the 2/5 Leicestershire Regiment. (139 Inf Bde)

    Gus
     
  17. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    18th DLI were the infantry component of 35 Beach Brick at the Salerno Landings in September 43. This was disbanded late 43 i think and the 18th DLI then spent some time in Egypt before going back to the UK, to become part of 36 Beach Brick for the Normandy Landings.

    As Drew says, you really need to post a copy of the page up.
     
  18. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Neil,

    I can help with a small part of your request; thus:

    "Embarked for unknown destination with H Force" dated 30.06.43"

    This is the embarkation, probably from North Africa, as part of the Operation Husky - the invasion of Sicily - landings on 10 July 1943. The 'H' is short-hand for 'Husky' and of course the destination would have initially been kept secret, hence the 'unknown destination'.

    As Andy (Drew) says, post the service record on this thread and let the forum members assist. If you wish the soldier's name to remain unknown, just erase it from the copy you intend to post.

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  19. neil.j.merryweather

    neil.j.merryweather New Member

  20. dryan67

    dryan67 Senior Member

    Based on the first look at the Service Records, it appears that the unit is question is the 54th Company, Durham Light Infantry. This was a sub-unit of the 18th Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry. The history of the 18th Battalion is shown below. As can be seen companies of the 18th Battalion served under a number of Beach Brick (or Beach Group) Battalions in Sicily, Anzio, Bone, Bizerta and Salerno as well as later in Normandy. The Beach Brick Battalions were formed to offer support services during assault landings and were combined arms units.

    Here is the organization for a sister battalion, No. 32 Beach Brick Battalion in Italy in September 1943:


    Table No. 32 Beach Brick – Italy – September 1943


    Infantry


    Medical


    HQ 32nd Brick (2nd Bn Highland Light Infantry)


    32nd Brick Medical Section


    HQ Company (2nd Bn Highland Light Infantry)


    E.M.E.


    Defence Company (2nd Bn Highland Light Infantry)


    32nd Brick Repair and Recovery Section


    Four Working Companies (2nd Bn HLI)


    Provost


    39th, 40th Squadrons RAC (Working Companies)


    640th Independent Provost Section


    65th, 66th, 67th Working Coys (3/12th FF Regiment)


    Royal Navy


    Engineers


    32nd Brick Royal Navy Beach Party


    626th Field Company, RE


    32nd Brick Royal Navy Boat Repair Section


    32nd Brick Mechanical Equipment Detachment


    32nd Brick Royal Navy Signal Section


    Signals


    Royal Air Force


    32nd Beach Brick Signal Section


    32nd Brick RAF Component


    S.T.


    Miscellaneous


    1507th Independent Platoon DUKWs


    HQ 2nd Field Maintenance Company


    Notice that the working companies were from the 3rd Battalion, 12th Frontier Force Regiment of the Indian Army and were numbered 65th to 67th. The companies of the 18th Durham Light Infantry that served with the Beach Bricks were also renumbered, though I have not been able to confirm the number 54th Company. It was probably the designation used by the company of the 18th that served in the Sicily landing (note 'D' Company below).

    Operation Husky, the amphibious landing on the beaches of Sicily, in July 1943 provided the testing ground for the Beach Brick/Group organisation. The allocation of 250 amphibian DUKWs to the Beach units and operated by RASC personnel were a remarkable asset to the Beach units. All groups had a successful landing although a sniper killed the commander of No. 32 Brick. Because of the nature of the beaches, Nos. 3, 4 and 34 Beach units had the most difficult time during the landing while the CO of No. 32 Brick was killed by sniper fire. About a week after the landing, the combat elements of the Beach units (infantry, AA, and engineers) were withdrawn back to their original formations with the beaches shutting down on July 18th.

    18th Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry

    The battalion was raised at the Infantry Depot at Geneifa, Egypt from convalescents of 6th, 8th and 9th Battalions in March 1943. It became part of the Beach Groups (Beach Brick Battalions) and moved to Syria to train upon creation. ‘D’ Company served under the No. 34 Beach Group in Sicily and at Anzio. HQ and two other companies served under No. 36 Beach Group at Bone, Bizerta and Salerno. The battalion moved to the United Kingdom in early 1944. It landed in Normandy under its beach brick role and remained under the 21st Army Group for the rest of the war. In Northwest Europe, the battalion moved to Boulogne and Calais and one company served in the siege on Dunkirk from February 1945. The battalion was disbanded at Calais in August 1945.
     

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