Humber Armoured Car - NWE question

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Chris C, Sep 3, 2020.

  1. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Hi all,

    On a modeling forum someone was asking about Humbers which prompted me to look at photos on the IWM site. I looked at 4-5 and they all seemed to be from units assigned to infantry divisions (50 Div and 15 Div). Did recce regiments (?) in armoured divisions get a different armoured car in France & Germany?
     
  2. Ewen Scott

    Ewen Scott Well-Known Member

  3. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Short answer. Armoured Divisions did not have organic armoured car units but had armoured reconnaissance regiments with Cromwell tanks.

    Armoured car regiments were Corps troops and used Daimler armourd cars. They could be attached to armoured divisions but would not have the divisions markings but had corps signs.

    Infantry divisions had reconnaissance regiments with Humber armoured cars.

    Mike
     
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  4. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    This was from my old notes on the subject. Recce Regts were indeed all Humber at the start of the campaign, then gradually converted to Daimler armd cars. It wasn't fully complete before VE-Day. Armd Car Regts as noted were primarily Daimler equipped.

    "The Humber Mk IV was the standard armoured car of the Reconnaissance Regiments in Normandy, with an increasing number of units adopting the Daimler during the course of the campaign. 3rd (British), 43rd (Wessex) and 51st (Highland) Divisions all converted to the Daimler during late 1944 and early 1945. 5th (British) and 52nd (Lowland) Divisions also arrived in theatre equipped with the Daimler. 49th (West Riding), 50th (Northumbrian), 53rd (Welsh) and 59th (Staffordshire) Divisions all retained the Humber throughout. 15th (Scottish) Division began to convert to the Daimler but still had a proportion of Humber armoured cars by VE-Day."

    Gary
     
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  5. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Thanks guys! I should have remembered armoured recce had Cromwells.

    That does lead me to another question: what was the difference in terms of role between an armoured car regiment and a recce regiment?
     
  6. Gary Kennedy

    Gary Kennedy Member

    These were the roles given in MTP No.60 (Part 1) of May 1943.

    The armoured car regiment "the fundamental role of an armoured car regiment is medium reconnaissance up to a distance of 50 miles ahead of main columns".

    The armoured reconnaissance regiment "the armoured reconnaissance regiment is equipped to carry out the role of close reconnaissance of the armoured divisional front, and of detailed reconnaissance after contact has been gained. It possesses the necessary armament to probe and press the enemy with a view to forcing him to disclose information of his dispositions".

    The reconnaissance regiment "since the reconnaissance regiment has many weapons but comparatively few men, it is most suitably employed during an advance for reconnaissance rather than protection. It may also be effectively used to watch a flank during a battle, or to cover a withdrawal..."

    There was supposed to be a separate MTP published for each type of Recce Regt, however only Part 4 was issued for the Recce Regt of the Inf Div, in March 1944.

    Gary
     
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  7. Chris C

    Chris C Canadian

    Thank you Gary, that's most helpful.
     
  8. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    The tasks of the Reconnaissance Regiment.

    The reconnaissance regiment was a very versatile unit but its main functions were those of the classic reconnaissance regiment which Napoleon would have recognised, information gathering and protection. These two functions cannot in fact be carried out simultaneously since information gathering requires a unit to be spread out on the front and flanks in order to report all enemy movement and to explore all possible routes, obstacles etc. Protection requires that the squadron be concentrated so as to hold or slow down an enemy until the main force can deal with it. Of course a compromise is often reached where an information gathering force can fall back to form a more concentrated unit if required.


    Information Gathering.
    This was the task for which the reconnaissance regiment was particularly equipped. It had fast light vehicles which could probe the front and flanks of a formation to obtain information and report it back to the main body as soon as possible. Information is of no value until it has reached the staff who can act on it. The reconnaissance patrols had a high proportion of officers and NCOs trained to recognise the significance and importance of what they saw. Obviously any information on enemy positions was of importance but in mobile warfare it was also necessary to have information on roads, tracks, bridges, minefields, flooded or soft ground. Anything which might help or hinder the following units. Such work required good navigation and map reading skills, not only to find the way but to be able to give an exact map reference for anything seen.

    Normally the wireless set carried in every reconnaissance vehicle could be used to send information back to troop headquarters, which would send it back to squadron headquarters and then onto to whichever headquarters the squadron is working to. Regimental Headquarters would sift and monitor the information so that it would know where its units are and also to be able to inform flanking units. When wireless silence was in operation the units had motorcycles and light armoured vehicles to carry the information back.


    Protection.
    When a force was operating in open country, typically in an advance or in a pursuit, it was always at risk of being attacked from the flanks. A force which was static, but not in contact with the enemy, was also at risk of a surprise attack from the front. In these circumstances the reconnaissance regiment would typically put two squadrons out to form a screen which would give warning of an attack. Having raised the alarm the reconnaissance regiment would then fall back to form a more secure defence. If possible the individual troops would delay the enemy while falling back. The third squadron would form a concentrated reserve to assist where the threat was greatest. Such defensive action would only allow time for the main force to deploy and could not be maintained for long.


    Seizing Key Points.
    The reconnaissance regiment had sufficient firepower and dismountable troops to take and hold key positions in an advance. A squadron advancing down a road would have the choice of

    - By passing a strong point. It would often be possible to leave a section to watch a strongpoint and then move on. The follow up forces could be left to deal with the enemy.

    - Outflanking a strongpoint. It was often possible for the carrier sections, backed by the motor sections and mortar sections, to move across country and work round an enemy flank thus forcing him to withdraw.

    - Assaulting a strongpoint. The assault troop may be strong enough to take the strongpoint.

    If a key point was taken it was probable that the enemy would try to regain it. In this case the squadron would need to hold it with assault troops, mortars and anti tank guns. When heavier troops arrived the squadron would be released to advance once more.

    A key point may have been a crossroads, perhaps taken without a fight. It would often be necessary to hold the crossroads for the following forces, and to put patrols down each road to guard against surprise.


    Exploitation.
    In some ways similar to seizing key points but squadrons would secure a breach or bridgehead and the routes from it. Squadrons, perhaps supported by other forces, would dash through the breach created by an assault and then fan out to secure as large an area as possible, especially routes that other units could use to exploit further. Armoured Car units or Armoured Reconnaissance units could then pass through to hold more distant points.


    Signals Work.
    Reconnaissance troops were skilled in the use of wireless and of rapidly setting up and maintaining communication nets. In Normandy, and occasionally afterwards, detachments from reconnaissance squadrons provided a communications network until the Royal Signals could establish a more permanent system. For two weeks from D Day 3 Reconnaissance Regiment and 61 Reconnaissance Regiment provided twelve contact detachments. Each detachment had a subaltern and two other ranks with a Wireless set No68. At first they were on foot but later transport was landed for them and a serjeant, trooper and 22 set in a jeep was added to the detachment.


    Traffic Control
    The reconnaissance regiment had several assets which made them ideal for traffic control

    - they were mobile

    - they were accustomed to working in small detachments under NCOs

    - they were accustomed to taking responsibility and showing initiative.

    - they were skilled in the use of wireless and well provided with wireless sets.

    - they were skilled in map reading and route finding.

    Traffic Control was necessary at river crossings and sometimes in breakthroughs in an enemy defensive line. Detachments could be stationed on approaches to act as control points. They would hold units until they were called forward. They might be called forward according to need or as there was capacity on roads, bridges or ferries for them. Often detachments in scout cars, jeeps or motorcycles would guide the unit transport forward. This gave additional control over traffic flow as even after leaving a control point the flow could be regulated via the guides and their wireless sets.


    Pursuit
    After a breakthrough it is desirable to actively pursue a fleeing enemy to prevent him reforming. Fast moving light units with good communications were obviously ideal for this work. They may not have instilled the same fear as the lancer of old but even light armour could spread anxiety and uncertainty.


    Infantry.
    The troops of reconnaissance regiments were often called upon to serve as infantry. They normally held sections of the front line in order to relieve the hard pressed divisional infantry battalions. Particularly in the late autumn of 1944 most regiments had little reconnaissance work to do so they parked their vehicles and acted as infantry. In some cases the actually formed normal infantry companies from squadron personnel and deployed the anti tank guns, mortars and carriers as would a normal infantry unit.


    Headquarters Protection
    Most headquarters had organic protection units but when the frontline was confused and snipers abounded, then the armoured cars and personnel carriers of the reconnaissance regiment could be deployed as additional protection.


    Convoy Protection.
    Reconnaissance regiments were often deployed to protect the flanks of an advance but sometimes, as in the Low Countries, this was not possible. The roads ran along raised banks and the surrounding country was low, wet and crossed by ditches and dykes. In these conditions light armoured units were used to accompany convoys. They were dispersed in small groups throughout the convoy and groups were in contact with each other by wireless.


    Observation Posts
    The reconnaissance regiments expertise in observation, map reading and wireless made them very useful for Observation Post work. Working much as an artillery observer, a vehicle crew would establish a post with line communications back to a vehicle mounted wireless set. They could report on enemy activity and even act as artillery observers if required.

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
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