Identification of three soldiers, killed by German mine.

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Oldleg, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    No War Diary but the casualties for August are listed?

    Here`s Augusts for you;-

    APTHORP SE 320837 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 27/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    CLAY KP 7674812 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 19/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    COMMERFORD TM 7927353 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 19/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    DAVIES HW 7908121 C SQN 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 12/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    GEORGE JC 14341464 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 08/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    HALFORD TSJC 13117478 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 08/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    HOPE AR 14544396 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 18/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    HOWLETT HNJ 14498743 B SQN 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 08/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    JONES HP 14295497 C SQN 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 17/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    JONES RJ 14374235 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 19/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    KILKELLY GP 6770 CDG 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 24/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    LOWE HV 7938199 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 18/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    MITCHELL D 14522631 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 17/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    MOFFAT J 3715524 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 19/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    PORTER GP 3521002 C SQN 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 18/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    SOWRAY J 7944430 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 08/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    SPILLER LH 4080533 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 20/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    VARNEY GW 556476 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 02/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    WEBBER HE 7891890 'A' SQN, 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 08/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    WYATT H 7917738 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 10/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS
    YOUNG JGM 226358 8TH KING'S ROYAL IRISH HUSSARS 18/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS


    Kyle
     
  2. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    I know absolutely nothing about where in France you actually refer to but would it be anywhere near Dangu, (Eure) ??? Okay if it isn't ignore the second part below

    13th/18th Hussars who acted as recce and supported 50th Div reached Dangu on the 29th August 1944 after being given a `Free` role on August 28th 1944?

    Casualties for 13/18th Hussars on the 29th were;-

    001 BANKS RJ 14668463 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 29/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS

    002 DOWELL LSD 14368896 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 29/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS

    003 GOSLING PJB 14425628 HQ SQN 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 29/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS

    004 HALL R 14251179 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 29/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS

    005 KNIGHT RHF 6148356 HQ SQN 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 29/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS

    006 PINK FT 14248562 C SQN 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 29/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS

    007 STOATE EL 14248047 13TH/18TH ROYAL HUSSARS 29/08/1944 ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS


    Kyle
     
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  3. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Kyle, it is only 28 Kms away so pretty close and I the route they would have taken if coming towrds our village would have brought them dammed close to the site of the incident. Do you have any info concerning war diaries as to what their movements were during that period?
     
  4. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Sorry Kyle, being thick here as I did not see the info about their moovements. I woouldn't mind knowing a little more about their movements. Does anyone have a copy of the War diaries for the 8th Royal Irish Hussars?
     
  5. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    If it is relevant then this might partially solve the issue? Sorry its a translation

    The original can be found here

    http://fr.geneawiki.com/index.php/Libération_de_la_vallée_de_l'Epte_-_29-30_août_1944


    Kyle

    Edit Is this BAILEY

    BAILEY, CAMERON ARTHUR SWINBURNE




    Rank:Lieutenant
    Service No:232577
    Date of Death:29/08/1944
    Age:21Regiment/Service: King's Royal Rifle Corps 12th (2nd Bn. The Queen's Westminsters) Bn.
    Grave Reference:Grave 2.
    Cemetery:BRAY-ET-LU COMMUNAL CEMETERY
    Additional Information:Son of Henry John Swinburne Bailey and Gertrude Ethel Bailey, of East Molesey, Surrey.
     
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  6. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    BRAY-ET-LU COMMUNAL CEMETERY has three casualties buried there;-

    BAILEY CAMERON ARTHUR SWINBURNE
    United Kingdom Lieutenant King's Royal Rifle Corps 12th (2nd Bn. The Queen's Westminsters) Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 29/08/1944 Service No: 232577

    BUCKELDEE PETER
    United Kingdom Rifleman King's Royal Rifle Corps 12th (2nd Bn. The Queen's Westminsters) Bn. Age: 17 Date of Death: 29/08/1944 Service No: 14439538

    HALL RONALD
    United Kingdom Trooper Royal Armoured Corps 13th/18th Royal Hussars Age: 20 Date of Death: 29/08/1944 Service No: 14251179

    and a commemorative plaque for a fourth remembered on the Bayeux Memorial

    Tpr Eric Lionel Stoate 29/08/1944 aged 29 Royal Armoured Corps 13th/18th Royal Hussars

    So if Bailey is right then Buckeldee is the other? or you have Hall and Stoate ?


    Kyle
     
  7. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Is there any way that we can find out the cause of death for any of these four? Shame I did not see this earlier as I spent time at Kew Saturday morning at the archives. Unfortunaely I found nothing useful. I tried to look up the missing persons records foor the 8th King's Royal Regiment but they had nothing for the month of August, the earliest was October '44.
     
  8. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    ?? Bailey was killed by a mine in his carrier? Presumably Buckledee was his driver? I would say with the possibility of an officer involved there `MAYBE` a mention in the KRRC diary but as the report already states;-

    "During cleaning the village, Lieutenant C. Bailey of B Company was killed by a mine; the carrier (tracked vehicle) where he was is destroyed."



    Kyle
     
  9. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Mr Jinks, where are you gettin this info? Any chance I can see a copy?
     
  10. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Sorry I meant Kyle.
     
  11. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    :)

    I have already posted a link to the original French site in post #45 together with a transcription (Translation) ??? The casualties come from Geoff`s Search engine.The grave details from inmemories Oldleg are my posts visible I`m confused ??

    Kyle :(
     
  12. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Kyle, my appologies. I will need to go through everything again. I have been busy runing around because of christmas etc that I have been skim reading somethings and may have missed some posts. Once I get back home to France this week I will be able to sit down and go through everything in more detail. At the moment I am trying to do about 50 million things all at once which is proving not very easy!!!!
     
  13. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Kyle, in Post 45 you mention the Kings Royal Rifle Corps. Do you by any chance have a copy of the War Diary for the regiment for the days leading and the days after? There is a soldier of the 2nd Batallion K.R.R.C John Woodward buried in front the church in Fleury La Forêt. HHe was killed on August 30th 1944.
     
  14. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    No Sorry .Perhaps you could ask Drew to get you a copy :)

    Kyle
     
  15. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Will do.
     
  16. Oldleg

    Oldleg Well-Known Member

    Some new information has come in to suggest that the first regiment to come into the village of Lyons La Forêt was in fact canadian. They entered using a road called Rue de Mont Connard.

    Now, looking at a previous post that I Ramacal mentioned a quote from the diary of The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada and it said that were based at La Chennaie. There is a La Chenaie which is next to Puckay, about 5km from here. Now does anyone have copies of the diary leading up to and after the 29th. If my theory is right then if they were at La Chenaie and they needed to get to Lyons La Forêt then the most direct route from point A to B would take them right next to the chapel.

    There is also the question about three member of 53rd Welsh Division who died in our forest but the exact location.... I don't know yet! Although I seem to remember someone mentioning an area called 'Chemin des Quatre Cantons'. I recently found this lane and it is right next to the chapel, about 200 meters away.


    I have still not been able to meet this eye witness that saw the death of the two guys from 15th Scotish Division at Saussay La Campagne to ask what he saw. Hopefully this will happen soon.
     
  17. ptibel

    ptibel New Member

    hi
    For more about Young / Roebuck, do as I did, visite my towns’website : http://www.mairie-corny-27.fr/
    Choose "Discover Corny" then "the village" and "the history of Corny"
    You will discover 3 PDF files that are scanning of a letter made by a local lady (I do not know her) who interviewed a person called Jean Erisay, who was born in this town, to know the history of the village.

    File 1, the letter (extract)
    ... He said well remembering the release, he was there with his uncle. It was the 29/08/1944. In fact, German, feeling trapped, had begun their retirement and so his uncle had photographed last German tank which in Corny, from crossing the Seine, had stopped to hide (hide at the sight of aviation) under the trees facing the school. (See Summary behind file 2.)
    So the 29/08/1944, he saw happen to Corny on the town square, an armored reconnaissance craft "Scottich" of the 15th Scottish division. The servants of the craft asked where were Germans and then descended from their vehicule. Jean Erisay's uncle asked if he could take a picture. This was done. Alas, the two gunners were killed a few hours later in Saussay la Campagne by a shooting of an anti-tank gun (see file 3). The two soldiers are buried in the cemetery of Saussay la Campagne. ....

    File 2, Scottish
    Humber MK III
    DI 15 Scottish, who crossed the Seine at Muids 28.08.1944, releases Corny the 29/08/1944, comes from Fresne l’Archeveque by the town road on to the place of Corny. First words: "Boch Boch Boch? "
    JD ROEBUCK 29.08.1944, 20 yo - WC YOUNG 29.08.1944, 31 yo
    It was destroyed at the crossroads of Saussay la Campagne by a firing of anti-tank canon, and the two crew members were killed and buried in the cemetery of Saussay la Campagne (Note: this is the old cemetery which one speaks, one who is around the church, not the communal cemetery indicated by some websites)

    File 3 Germans
    It is the story of the last tank Tiger IV who crossed Corny. (He was abandoned the 28.08.1944)

    You may be familiar with this site that talks about this episode of the war: http://www.15threcce.org/ScottishLionOnPatrolCh9.html

    For more information, and perhaps a better picture, you can contact Jean Erisay. Fortunately, he is passionate about the Second World War, he created the WW2 Museum of Tosny, you can contact him here (his e mail is on « contact »):http://museellgmdetosny.free.fr/
     

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