Intelligence Corps

Discussion in 'Top Secret' started by Tom Murray, Oct 5, 2022.

  1. Tom Murray

    Tom Murray Member

    My grandfather, Thomas William Murray, was accepted into the Intelligence Corps on 24 June 1941.He was given the rank of second lieutenant and was stationed at Whaddon Hall/ Bletchley Park under the leadership of Gambier-Parry's Section VIII communications. I know generally about his assignments there but am looking for more specific information about his precise role as a second lieutenant with the Corps. For example, in July 1941, he was assigned to the British 30 Military Mission in Russia. What specifically was he ordered to do as part of this mission? Any thoughts?
     
  2. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Tom,

    That is rapid career June to July 1941. So he knew what he needed to know after being at Bletchley Park. Then off to Russia as a Military Mission member, where he would be spied upon. So, was he a university graduate / student and did he speak German / Russian or other languages? These questions may be superfluous as there is copious information (as below).

    An odd London Gazette entry: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35278/supplement/5408/data.pdf

    Then I did the basic check: is he already here in a thread? I used "full name" + "ww2talk.com" and yes there are four threads. On a quick scan a long thread 2007-2017: Intelligence Corps officer

    Then in 2019 a very short thread, started by the same author: Thomas William Murray, Marconist, undercover agent and MI6 wireless operator

    Plus, a thread you posted on in 2019: Thomas W. Murray service ww2 and this week another: RAF Military Mission in Russia

    It might help to check who has posted in all the threads and as you have access to PM ask them for help. On my scan of the 2007 thread there were quite a few, but it not clear if he was 100% identified.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
  3. Tom Murray

    Tom Murray Member

    Thank you for this. This site has been a very helpful resource. Just a quick update from the earlier threads. I have met Svein Korsvold and he and I have become good friends as we work together to solve this little mystery. We have made considerable progress. I was very fortunate to receive my grandfather's official paperwork from the Army Personnel Center in Glasgow. These documents provide proof that Thomas William Murray joined MI6 after he returned to Europe from USA in 1940 aboard the Norwegian ship Songa. In his official paperwork, he states as his present occupation "W.T. Opr, M.I.6". So, he was apparently already with MI6 when he applied for and was accepted into the Intelligence Corps as a second lieutenant. His Corps application was signed by Colonel Gambier-Parry and Captain Jack Saunders on 24 July 1941. His service record for the Intelligence Corps shows that he was assigned to 30 Military Mission in July 1941 immediately upon signing on with the Corps. He also was sent to the Iceland Force in 1942 and then Middle East Force in 1943. He would eventually retire from the Corps in 1946.
    In direct answer to your earlier questions, he would have been 52 years of age when he joined the Intelligence Corps. So, he was not a university graduate, In fact, his only formal schooling beyond high school was with Marconi. According to his paperwork he was "fair" with German, Italian and Spanish. Where my trail runs cold is understanding more specifically what he did as a second Lieutenant (later promoted to Captain) while on these assignments? Supervisor? Liaison, Trainer, Signals Expert? Senior Government Official? Also, his paperwork states that he was already with MI6 sometime before June 1941. How might I find out exactly when he joined MI6? We know he arrived in Ireland in January 1940 and then in April was in Bergen where he worked with Svein Korsvold's father and his resistance unit. Scant records found there suggest that he was a British Asset send to Bergen to support the planned but tardy British occupation. Was he already with MI6 before his arrival in Bergen? Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share the mystery further and thank you for any counsel and thoughts you might offer in answering these additional questions. Tom
     
  4. alieneyes

    alieneyes Senior Member

    Tom,

    Unfortunately, the security services are not in the habit of answering the questions you have in bold. Perhaps a "we can neither confirm or deny" letter. I can sympathize.

    I had three great uncles, all in the Intelligence Corps. Two were commissioned 2nd Lts in 1939 and '40 and the young 'un was commissioned in 1944. Their commissions were in the London Gazette. By 1944 the 1939 2nd Lt is now a Major and yet none of the three were gazetted ever again. Over the past 40 odd years bits and pieces of their stories have come out. I would also recommend you talk to the archivist at the Intelligence Corps Museum. An absolute font of knowledge.

    No. 30 Military Mission, Moscow: It's unfortunate he wasn't there in 1945. I have a photograph of the group, taken in front of the British Embassy in March 1945. Never a more diverse group of uniforms pictured. They were sent out all over Poland and the Ukraine to ensure that Stalin was keeping his word re: Yalta. They weren't.

    Good luck with your research.

    Regards,

    Dave
     
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  5. davidbfpo

    davidbfpo Patron Patron

    Tom,

    I would concur with Alieneyes comment:
    This is even more pronounced with SIS (MI6) and extends beyond the person's lifetime.

    There are several intelligence studies historians who have been able to gain information from a diligent search of official records, invariably where the "weeders" have not been or have missed. Such records are normally held by non-military / intelligence agencies and often in the USA National Archives. Richard Aldrich's tome on GCHQ comes to mind.

    What do the Marconi Archives have? assuming they exist.

    Have any of the known persons in the Moscow Mission written anything?

    Given the existing strength of Anglo-Norwegian relations (intelligence and military) I would exclude Norwegian records, as the "weeders" have covered that.

    It would be worth contacting Jedburgh, although his focus has been SOE, he knows more about secrecy than most. He only dips in rarely, but a PM should work.
     
  6. Tom Murray

    Tom Murray Member

    Svein and I have gotten useful information from the Marconi files (Still checking). There have been books written by the British Officers in charge of No. 30 Military Mission. I have read most and have found no mention of Thomas William Murray. Educated guess is that Churchill was sharing carefully harvested intelligence from Bletchley Park with Stalin to help the Russians thwart Operation Barbarossa and that Thomas William, given his 25 plus years of signals experience, may have been sent there to ensure that there were no mistakes made in handling such information. Studies suggest this but I have no proof. Thanks for the contact. Also, NARA is in my backyard here in the States and I have visited often. Found some useful gems in State Department files for Thomas William Murray in Norway 1940 suggesting his association with British Intelligence.

    Tom
     
  7. Tom,

    A couple of posts ago you wanted to know what your grandfather might have been doing, especially during his time in Russia. I'm sure you are right that whatever it was, it was based on his expertise as a W/T operator. He was probably in charge of the Special Communication Unit (SCU) which handled the ULTRA traffic for the British Military Mission. As you are probably aware Richard Gambier-Parry headed Section VIII of SIS which handled communications and ran the SCUs. The SIS had the most secure communications of all the services and the best networks, and so they handled the ULTRA traffic, and not the military, although many of the SCU operators were on detachment from the military. The Foreign Office communications setup was much less sophisticated and so could not be trusted with ULTRA.
    That said, what was sent to the Military Mission in Moscow for onward transmission to the Russians was heavily sanitised before it left Britain to protect its SIGINT origins, and so it wouldn't have been classed as ULTRA. Ironically, thanks to Kim Philby and later, John Cairncross, the Soviets already knew all about ULTRA.TWM's SCU would have worked back to Whaddon Hall which was Section VIII's main transmitter/receiver site, located about 5 miles from Bletchley Park.

    Andy
     
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